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I love EU! US, pay attention. This is how you do civil liberties. It seems EU is becoming the new beacon of democracy and civil liberties in the 21st century (i

I love EU! US, pay attention. This is how you do civil liberties. It seems EU is becoming the new beacon of democracy and civil liberties in the 21st century (if we ignore UK, which seems more interested in being another US state than an EU one, anyway, but without any rights to vote in the former).

weavejester 13y ago
There's a vocal anti-EU minority in the UK, but it's still a minority. It just seems larger than it actually is because it's loud, and to some extent act as swing votes (the Conservatives want to avoid losing too many votes to UKIP, for fear of Labour beating them in the next election).
- Silhouette 13y ago
  There's a vocal anti-EU minority in the UK, but it's still a minority. That statement is true but potentially misleading. In a poll earlier this month, as reported by the BBC[1], voting intentions if we had an in/out referendum immediately were 35% in, 32% out, 27% undecided, and 6% would not vote. A different poll from back in December, mentioned in the same article, had a result of 32% in and 45% out, so it looks like the balance of opinion on this issue varies considerably over time, too. (Both polls came from reputable sources, so I'm assuming that the sampling was done sensibly.) In short, while it's true that the "anti-EU" group are a minority, the "pro-EU" group appear to be a minority of approximately the same size. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26892237 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26892237
- rmc 13y ago
  > (the Conservatives want to avoid losing too many votes to UKIP, for fear of Labour beating them in the next election). If only there was some sort of voting system, where people could rank Alternatives so that the right wing voters wouldn't be split... If only...
Zak 13y ago
I love EU! US, pay attention. This is how you do civil liberties. Note that it was the EU that implemented this data retention law in the first place. The US has no such data retention law and attempts to pass one have failed. US law enforcement and intelligence agencies have done plenty of their own privacy invasion, of course, but there is substantial evidence that their counterparts in EU countries have done the same, sometimes conspiring with the US to do so.
- tempodox 13y ago
  "The US has no such data retention law...": Well, NSA & colleagues do their very own data retention, outside of any law. That they violate the Constitution in doing so doesn't seem to be enough to have them stop.

weavejester 13y ago

There's a vocal anti-EU minority in the UK, but it's still a minority. It just seems larger than it actually is because it's loud, and to some extent act as swing votes (the Conservatives want to avoid losing too many votes to UKIP, for fear of Labour beating them in the next election).

Silhouette 13y ago
There's a vocal anti-EU minority in the UK, but it's still a minority. That statement is true but potentially misleading. In a poll earlier this month, as reported by the BBC[1], voting intentions if we had an in/out referendum immediately were 35% in, 32% out, 27% undecided, and 6% would not vote. A different poll from back in December, mentioned in the same article, had a result of 32% in and 45% out, so it looks like the balance of opinion on this issue varies considerably over time, too. (Both polls came from reputable sources, so I'm assuming that the sampling was done sensibly.) In short, while it's true that the "anti-EU" group are a minority, the "pro-EU" group appear to be a minority of approximately the same size. [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26892237 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26892237
rmc 13y ago
> (the Conservatives want to avoid losing too many votes to UKIP, for fear of Labour beating them in the next election). If only there was some sort of voting system, where people could rank Alternatives so that the right wing voters wouldn't be split... If only...

Zak 13y ago

I love EU! US, pay attention. This is how you do civil liberties. Note that it was the EU that implemented this data retention law in the first place. The US has no such data retention law and attempts to pass one have failed. US law enforcement and intelligence agencies have done plenty of their own privacy invasion, of course, but there is substantial evidence that their counterparts in EU countries have done the same, sometimes conspiring with the US to do so.

tempodox 13y ago
"The US has no such data retention law...": Well, NSA & colleagues do their very own data retention, outside of any law. That they violate the Constitution in doing so doesn't seem to be enough to have them stop.