4 ms·

They really should call them "indentured servant slave visas". The H1-B visa holder has to leave the country if he gets fired (and doesn't find a new employer

by fsk 13y ago

They really should call them "indentured servant slave visas". The H1-B visa holder has to leave the country if he gets fired (and doesn't find a new employer quickly), and if he switches jobs the green card process has to start over. Because the H1-B visa employee is legally bound to the job, he becomes more attractive than hiring a US citizen, (assuming equal salary and qualification).

malandrew 13y ago
The H1-B visa really needs to be completely divorced from the company that originally applies for it. At the end of the day, the US government makes a decision if an individual adds value to the country by working for a US company. Which US company shouldn't matter. The only time the visa should be re-evaluated in a way that the employer may be deported is if the worker is fired for cause. Beyond that the visa should belong to the employee, not the employer. The fact that the green card process resets if the employee switches jobs is crazy. That really does make it an "indentured servant slave visa".
- fsk 13y ago
  I'm in favor of immigration. I'm saying give them an unlimited work visa, instead of making them a slave to the employer. Also, H1-B visas get 50%-150%+ raises when they get their green card, which proves that the H1-B visa suppresses wages.
  - gdilla 13y ago
    Quite right. It's not a free labor market if laborers aren't free to move around! H1Bs keep wages down for that very reason. If they were attached to the worker, not the company, H1B wages would rise overnight.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  This is an interesting idea. You could have a lottery for 100K H-1B visas which any non-citizen could apply for on January 1st. Then you have 6 months to find a qualified high-tech job in the US. If you don't have an offer in that time you lose the visa and are put on deferral for 1 year. Then there is a smaller lottery of visas reclaimed from those who were not hired. Every year you get two shots at visa.
npinguy 13y ago
Except relocation costs, lawyer fees, living expenses (frequently covered for a time period after move), and so on. Bringing a foreign employee over is incredibly expensive. The reason companies do it isn't to get a grateful slave that will do anything to hold his job and rise ahead. They do it because a shortage of skilled workers locally, and incredible competition from other companies. Not to mention all the hassle and uncertainty of interviewing someone, and then not knowing for months or even years if they can come over and start working. As someone that works for a company that hires a LOT internationally, trust me, we'd much rather hire locally. But our needs are greater than can be found in one place, so we have to broaden our reach.
- diegomcfly 13y ago
  Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. I've been in this industry for nearly 20 years. There is no shortage. There IS A HUGE SHORTAGE of engineers willing to work for the pay and conditions that an H1B will work for though.
thingylab 13y ago
That's a bit of an exaggeration. Many H1-Bs work in high-value industries and make a decent amount of money (I should know, I'm an H1-B holder). I don't think many of them consider themselves slaves. The green card process for a H1-B is particularly annoying and restrictive though, as is the arbitrary time limit. Not sure what you mean by "the H1-B visa employee is legally bound to the job". Sure, your company's name is printed on your visa but it is excessively easy to transfer to a new employer.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  The H-1B becomes a whole lot more restrictive the moment you apply for a green card, since your transferability just vanished. This is less of a problem for people from non-Indian and non-Chinese backgrounds, since the wait time is reasonably short. The priority dates for Indians and Chinese though make it such that once your green card is started you're stuck for literally years.
  - refurb 13y ago
    Once you've applied for a green card and the PERM and I-140 has been approved and your I-485 has been pending for 180 days, you do have portability. You can leave your current employer, but you must find another position that is substantially similar. Labor certification and I-140 processing used to be painfully slow. I waited 3.5 years just for my labor certification. However, the new PERM process is much quicker, so you'd probably only have to wait 1 or 2 years to be eligible for portability.
    - isb 13y ago
      You can't file for an i-485 if your date is not current which is the case for folks from India/China. So there is no true portability.
- IvyMike 13y ago
  I think you have never been laid off. I know a few H1-B visa holders who were and I cannot imagine the stress they went through. Fortunately they all found jobs in time, although when you've got a time limit, you end up making some compromises.
logn 13y ago
I don't think calling it slavery is accurate, but indentured servitude is close (except I don't think they experience maltreatment or harsh conditions). Anyhow, this article is great: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant One of the similarities that stuck out to me: Most white immigrants arrived in Colonial America as indentured servants, usually as young men and women from Britain or Germany, under the age of 21. Typically, the father of a teenager would sign the legal papers, and work out an arrangement with a ship captain, who would not charge the father any money.[10] The captain would transport the indentured servants to the American colonies, and sell their legal papers to someone who needed workers. At the end of the indenture, the young person was given a new suit of clothes and was free to leave. Many immediately set out to begin their own farms, while others used their newly acquired skills to pursue a trade. The question of legality would come down to whether it's voluntary or involuntary servitude. But as a practical matter, I think it would be good for all people (not companies) if we found a more lenient path to citizenship as it wouldn't put as much downward pressure on salaries and wouldn't make H1-Bs preferable over others, all else being equal.
- ksolanki 13y ago
  Your point actually makes H1B worse than "indentured servitude" of the past. Many (if not most) H1B folks stick around at one company just waiting for a green card. This kind-of means it is involuntary in some sense. However, unlike indentured servitude, there the "young person" does not automatically get a green card and is not "free to leave" at the end by default. By default, at the end, he/she has to leave the US.
chulk90 13y ago
Do you have sources for the claims? An H1B visa is easily transferable and is not subject to the H1B quota.
hpagey 13y ago
"and if he switches jobs the green card process has to start over." This is incorrect. You retain your place in the GC queue if your i-140 is applied and approved. You just have to port your i-140 .
tn13 13y ago
Calling H1Bs slave is a big insult to the black community. If H1B was slavery thousands of people would not have willingly applied for it. H1B has lot of restrictions most idiotic being that the spouce has to sit idle. That is idiotic.

by fsk 13y ago

malandrew 13y ago

The H1-B visa really needs to be completely divorced from the company that originally applies for it. At the end of the day, the US government makes a decision if an individual adds value to the country by working for a US company. Which US company shouldn't matter. The only time the visa should be re-evaluated in a way that the employer may be deported is if the worker is fired for cause. Beyond that the visa should belong to the employee, not the employer. The fact that the green card process resets if the employee switches jobs is crazy. That really does make it an "indentured servant slave visa".

fsk 13y ago
I'm in favor of immigration. I'm saying give them an unlimited work visa, instead of making them a slave to the employer. Also, H1-B visas get 50%-150%+ raises when they get their green card, which proves that the H1-B visa suppresses wages.
- gdilla 13y ago
  Quite right. It's not a free labor market if laborers aren't free to move around! H1Bs keep wages down for that very reason. If they were attached to the worker, not the company, H1B wages would rise overnight.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
This is an interesting idea. You could have a lottery for 100K H-1B visas which any non-citizen could apply for on January 1st. Then you have 6 months to find a qualified high-tech job in the US. If you don't have an offer in that time you lose the visa and are put on deferral for 1 year. Then there is a smaller lottery of visas reclaimed from those who were not hired. Every year you get two shots at visa.

npinguy 13y ago

Except relocation costs, lawyer fees, living expenses (frequently covered for a time period after move), and so on. Bringing a foreign employee over is incredibly expensive. The reason companies do it isn't to get a grateful slave that will do anything to hold his job and rise ahead. They do it because a shortage of skilled workers locally, and incredible competition from other companies. Not to mention all the hassle and uncertainty of interviewing someone, and then not knowing for months or even years if they can come over and start working. As someone that works for a company that hires a LOT internationally, trust me, we'd much rather hire locally. But our needs are greater than can be found in one place, so we have to broaden our reach.

diegomcfly 13y ago
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. I've been in this industry for nearly 20 years. There is no shortage. There IS A HUGE SHORTAGE of engineers willing to work for the pay and conditions that an H1B will work for though.

thingylab 13y ago

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Many H1-Bs work in high-value industries and make a decent amount of money (I should know, I'm an H1-B holder). I don't think many of them consider themselves slaves. The green card process for a H1-B is particularly annoying and restrictive though, as is the arbitrary time limit. Not sure what you mean by "the H1-B visa employee is legally bound to the job". Sure, your company's name is printed on your visa but it is excessively easy to transfer to a new employer.

potatolicious 13y ago
The H-1B becomes a whole lot more restrictive the moment you apply for a green card, since your transferability just vanished. This is less of a problem for people from non-Indian and non-Chinese backgrounds, since the wait time is reasonably short. The priority dates for Indians and Chinese though make it such that once your green card is started you're stuck for literally years.
- refurb 13y ago
  Once you've applied for a green card and the PERM and I-140 has been approved and your I-485 has been pending for 180 days, you do have portability. You can leave your current employer, but you must find another position that is substantially similar. Labor certification and I-140 processing used to be painfully slow. I waited 3.5 years just for my labor certification. However, the new PERM process is much quicker, so you'd probably only have to wait 1 or 2 years to be eligible for portability.
  - isb 13y ago
    You can't file for an i-485 if your date is not current which is the case for folks from India/China. So there is no true portability.
IvyMike 13y ago
I think you have never been laid off. I know a few H1-B visa holders who were and I cannot imagine the stress they went through. Fortunately they all found jobs in time, although when you've got a time limit, you end up making some compromises.

logn 13y ago

I don't think calling it slavery is accurate, but indentured servitude is close (except I don't think they experience maltreatment or harsh conditions). Anyhow, this article is great: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant One of the similarities that stuck out to me: Most white immigrants arrived in Colonial America as indentured servants, usually as young men and women from Britain or Germany, under the age of 21. Typically, the father of a teenager would sign the legal papers, and work out an arrangement with a ship captain, who would not charge the father any money.[10] The captain would transport the indentured servants to the American colonies, and sell their legal papers to someone who needed workers. At the end of the indenture, the young person was given a new suit of clothes and was free to leave. Many immediately set out to begin their own farms, while others used their newly acquired skills to pursue a trade. The question of legality would come down to whether it's voluntary or involuntary servitude. But as a practical matter, I think it would be good for all people (not companies) if we found a more lenient path to citizenship as it wouldn't put as much downward pressure on salaries and wouldn't make H1-Bs preferable over others, all else being equal.

ksolanki 13y ago
Your point actually makes H1B worse than "indentured servitude" of the past. Many (if not most) H1B folks stick around at one company just waiting for a green card. This kind-of means it is involuntary in some sense. However, unlike indentured servitude, there the "young person" does not automatically get a green card and is not "free to leave" at the end by default. By default, at the end, he/she has to leave the US.

chulk90 13y ago

Do you have sources for the claims? An H1B visa is easily transferable and is not subject to the H1B quota.

hpagey 13y ago

"and if he switches jobs the green card process has to start over." This is incorrect. You retain your place in the GC queue if your i-140 is applied and approved. You just have to port your i-140 .

tn13 13y ago

Calling H1Bs slave is a big insult to the black community. If H1B was slavery thousands of people would not have willingly applied for it. H1B has lot of restrictions most idiotic being that the spouce has to sit idle. That is idiotic.