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“They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless.” Any society which in any way thinks this makes sense needs to take a good, deep look at itself

by trezor 17y ago

“They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless.” Any society which in any way thinks this makes sense needs to take a good, deep look at itself and then start thinking over.

barrkel 17y ago
I get more than a whiff of morality being correlated to income, and a lack of respect for the winds of fortune here. The idea that good people work hard, and hard work is rewarded, therefore only bad people are poor and it's their own punishment.
- hnal943 17y ago
  It's one thing to be poor. It's quite another to be homeless. Also, don't forget that at least for a while we are still free; the homeless are not destined to stay in the gutter if they don't want to. We have no castes in America.
  - halostatue 17y ago
    That's a nice, but false, sentiment (that we don't have castes in America). The castes in America are more subtle and fuzzier than those in India, but that makes them no less real. The reality is that the vast majority of the chronic homeless are both poor and physically or mentally ill (or both). It's a natural consequence of the closing of so many mental institutions (which in and of itself is not a bad thing) without providing alternative treatment and housing options (which in and of itself is a bad thing). Add all of this to the fact that it is by and large expensive to be poor and you end up with large groups in America who are unable to shift their fortunes in any meaningful way. Yes, there will be a few fortunate individuals that manage to claw their way out of being poor in America (and they will be held up as examples by all sides, missing the point that they are the exception for a reason!), but in general people who are poor in America stay poor in America. [I suspect that one could substitute "Canada" or "France" or "England" or most other Western countries for "America" here, even if the problems and reasons are slightly different. Toronto has a substantial chronic homeless problem because of idiotic downloading of social programs from the province to the city and subsequent reduction of mental health programs. Note as well that I'm differentiating between chronic homeless and temporary homeless; your statement about "not destined to stay..." is true for the temporary homeless. The original article is mostly about the chronic homeless.]
    - roundsquare 17y ago
      Do you have statistics on homelessness before the mental institutions were closed down? Obviously we'd need to find a way to time-adjust them but I'd be curious to compare.
      - halostatue 17y ago
        I don't; it's not something that I research personally. However, there appear to be links to interesting sources here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Stat... http://www.nrchmi.samhsa.gov/Channel/View.aspx?id=18 http://www.nrchmi.samhsa.gov/Channel/View.aspx?id=18 http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/ http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/ The general impression that I've obtained in my casual reading of this over the years is that (a) there have always been "indigents", but (b) the numbers have gone way up since the 1960s and (c) a disproportionate number of "indigents"/homeless have been those with mental illnesses.
edw519 17y ago
They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless. Inaccurate and sensationalist. Earlier in the same paragraph: It turned out that Mr. Szekely, who is an ordained minister and does not drink, do drugs or curse in front of ladies, did indeed have a warrant - for not appearing in court to face a charge of "criminal trespassing" He wasn't arrested for being homeless; he was arrested for an outstanding warrant. You may or may not be arrested, charged, or convicted for other crimes, but one thing's for sure: law enforcement seems to take it personally when you don't appear. Anyone with an outstanding warrant risks immediate arrest at any time. The reasonableness of the original charge doesn't matter.
- barrkel 17y ago
  And what was the warrant for? Was it not for sleeping on the sidewalk, i.e. being homeless?
  - modoc 17y ago
    They don't say. It could be he was breaking into houses. Speculating isn't going to be productive.
    - Niten 17y ago
      Wrong. They do say. It was, in fact, for sleeping on a sidewalk. Did you even read the article?
  - tedunangst 17y ago
    No, it was for not appearing in court.
    - trezor 17y ago
      If he was homeless, how was he supposed to get a letter telling him to show up in court at all? Yeah he got arrested for being homeless.
      - 17y ago
GiraffeNecktie 17y ago
As the child of a veteran, the part that offends me is that a guy who literally took a bullet on the behalf of the rest of us is now just a nuisance to be hustled out of sight by the police. Americafail.
- bilbo0s 17y ago
  Wish I could upvote you more guy. Personally, I think the fact that so many of our homeless are veterans should be criminal. But this is a democracy, and I am out voted.
- buofbouy 17y ago
  But he was a veteran of a war that they lost.

by trezor 17y ago

“They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless.” Any society which in any way thinks this makes sense needs to take a good, deep look at itself and then start thinking over.

barrkel 17y ago

I get more than a whiff of morality being correlated to income, and a lack of respect for the winds of fortune here. The idea that good people work hard, and hard work is rewarded, therefore only bad people are poor and it's their own punishment.

hnal943 17y ago
It's one thing to be poor. It's quite another to be homeless. Also, don't forget that at least for a while we are still free; the homeless are not destined to stay in the gutter if they don't want to. We have no castes in America.
- halostatue 17y ago
  That's a nice, but false, sentiment (that we don't have castes in America). The castes in America are more subtle and fuzzier than those in India, but that makes them no less real. The reality is that the vast majority of the chronic homeless are both poor and physically or mentally ill (or both). It's a natural consequence of the closing of so many mental institutions (which in and of itself is not a bad thing) without providing alternative treatment and housing options (which in and of itself is a bad thing). Add all of this to the fact that it is by and large expensive to be poor and you end up with large groups in America who are unable to shift their fortunes in any meaningful way. Yes, there will be a few fortunate individuals that manage to claw their way out of being poor in America (and they will be held up as examples by all sides, missing the point that they are the exception for a reason!), but in general people who are poor in America stay poor in America. [I suspect that one could substitute "Canada" or "France" or "England" or most other Western countries for "America" here, even if the problems and reasons are slightly different. Toronto has a substantial chronic homeless problem because of idiotic downloading of social programs from the province to the city and subsequent reduction of mental health programs. Note as well that I'm differentiating between chronic homeless and temporary homeless; your statement about "not destined to stay..." is true for the temporary homeless. The original article is mostly about the chronic homeless.]
  - roundsquare 17y ago
    Do you have statistics on homelessness before the mental institutions were closed down? Obviously we'd need to find a way to time-adjust them but I'd be curious to compare.
    - halostatue 17y ago
      I don't; it's not something that I research personally. However, there appear to be links to interesting sources here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Stat... http://www.nrchmi.samhsa.gov/Channel/View.aspx?id=18 http://www.nrchmi.samhsa.gov/Channel/View.aspx?id=18 http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/ http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/ The general impression that I've obtained in my casual reading of this over the years is that (a) there have always been "indigents", but (b) the numbers have gone way up since the 1960s and (c) a disproportionate number of "indigents"/homeless have been those with mental illnesses.

edw519 17y ago

They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless. Inaccurate and sensationalist. Earlier in the same paragraph: It turned out that Mr. Szekely, who is an ordained minister and does not drink, do drugs or curse in front of ladies, did indeed have a warrant - for not appearing in court to face a charge of "criminal trespassing" He wasn't arrested for being homeless; he was arrested for an outstanding warrant. You may or may not be arrested, charged, or convicted for other crimes, but one thing's for sure: law enforcement seems to take it personally when you don't appear. Anyone with an outstanding warrant risks immediate arrest at any time. The reasonableness of the original charge doesn't matter.

barrkel 17y ago
And what was the warrant for? Was it not for sleeping on the sidewalk, i.e. being homeless?
- modoc 17y ago
  They don't say. It could be he was breaking into houses. Speculating isn't going to be productive.
  - Niten 17y ago
    Wrong. They do say. It was, in fact, for sleeping on a sidewalk. Did you even read the article?
- tedunangst 17y ago
  No, it was for not appearing in court.
  - trezor 17y ago
    If he was homeless, how was he supposed to get a letter telling him to show up in court at all? Yeah he got arrested for being homeless.
    - 17y ago

GiraffeNecktie 17y ago

As the child of a veteran, the part that offends me is that a guy who literally took a bullet on the behalf of the rest of us is now just a nuisance to be hustled out of sight by the police. Americafail.

bilbo0s 17y ago
Wish I could upvote you more guy. Personally, I think the fact that so many of our homeless are veterans should be criminal. But this is a democracy, and I am out voted.
buofbouy 17y ago
But he was a veteran of a war that they lost.