5 ms·

What's the rationale behind having laws like these in place? Is it protectionism for the hotel industry, or is it more intended to protect apartment renters fro

What's the rationale behind having laws like these in place? Is it protectionism for the hotel industry, or is it more intended to protect apartment renters from unintended liability issues?

protomyth 13y ago
Its about liability and protection of the other people in the building. This type of law has a long history and a lot of things can go very wrong. This is a totally different story from Uber and the taxi industry.
- pisarzp 13y ago
  Why liability would change? Main tenant is on the contract, and she should be liable for any issues arising due to airbnb rental.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    Its an unexpected risk as presumedly the landlord vetted[1] the tenant, but the Airbnb customer was not so vetted. 1) credit check & renter history are standard
  - camus2 13y ago
    what if something happens to the airbnb renter? liabilities are way more complicated than it seems.
- hatu 13y ago
  I can understand not being pumped about having random people come and go if your neighbor is leasing out their place on a site like this regularly. As a traveler I like the service though.
- tptacek 13y ago
  I'm not sure it's all that different from Uber and the taxi industry: * The medallion system gives owners something significant to lose it they become scofflaws, and while we all have horror stories about cab drivers, anyone who's traveled to Asia (or, for that matter, Italy) knows that we have relatively well-behaved drivers, even in the cohorts selected for worst incentives. * The taxi companies are required to comply with rules that make taxis part of the fabric of transportation for the whole city (for instance, they're usually required to serve every destination within the city). Uber does not need to comply with these rules, and thus threatens not just cab companies but the transportation system as a whole.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    I see your point and I guess I went a little far using "totally". In my mind, the governing factor in the taxi stories is a government created scarcity that results in some serious monopolies ($100,000 medallions). There is also a rather larger segment of private transportation other than cabs. The hotel / motel rules are less about scarcity than a history of really, really bad things happening. People's homes are a pretty big issue in when threatened by neighbors that can destroy everything you own. People get the possibility of a car accident even if it can be much, much worse.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I'm reminded of that incident where the Uber driver hit & killed a kid, and the way Uber dropped the driver like a hot rock. After all, they've got nothing to lose!
- malandrew 13y ago
  Why does it need to be a criminal issue though instead of merely a civil contract law issue? I would imagine that each landlord and each homeowner's association could come to their own agreements on what is and is not acceptable without the need for laws on the books.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    "Why does it need to be a criminal issue though instead of merely a civil contract law issue?" I get the feeling it is more the origin of the law as a business regulation that drives the criminal part. I too wish more things were handled as basic contract law issues.
mjgoins 13y ago
One positive side effect of regulation is that overt racial discrimination is illegal. Black and Jewish folks used to have a hell of a time getting a hotel room in the US at various points in history. That became illegal with the 1960s civil rights laws, but recent media coverage suggests discrimination is rampant on Airbnb. It also used to be nearly impossible to find wheelchair-accessible hotels. I have no idea what the solution is here, but there are good things about regulation of these kinds of businesses.
uptown 13y ago
I'm sure there are some protectionist elements to it, but it also prevents people from taking zoning-laws into their own hands. If an area is zoned as a residential zone, it shouldn't be turned into a commercial (i.e. hotel) zone because a bunch of people decide to turn their properties into nightly-rentals. If somebody decides their apartment would make a great night-club, they can't just make it a nightclub because they own their apartment. Zoning laws are designed to create a symbiotic relationship throughout a community, and AirBNB does very little to discourage its users from ignoring those laws.
pdq 13y ago
It is protectionism for hotels. However, HOAs and City Councils will make the claims that this is to "protect" apartment owners from unknowing short-term sub-renting of their properties. We have the same problem here in Austin, except it is Taxis being protected against private drivers like Uber and Lyft. They claim this is to protect citizens from unlicensed drivers.
geebee 13y ago
There is also concern about the large scale conversion of long term residential and single family housing stock into short-term vacation rentals in a severely supply constrained region.

What's the rationale behind having laws like these in place? Is it protectionism for the hotel industry, or is it more intended to protect apartment renters from unintended liability issues?

protomyth 13y ago

Its about liability and protection of the other people in the building. This type of law has a long history and a lot of things can go very wrong. This is a totally different story from Uber and the taxi industry.

pisarzp 13y ago
Why liability would change? Main tenant is on the contract, and she should be liable for any issues arising due to airbnb rental.
- protomyth 13y ago
  Its an unexpected risk as presumedly the landlord vetted[1] the tenant, but the Airbnb customer was not so vetted. 1) credit check & renter history are standard
- camus2 13y ago
  what if something happens to the airbnb renter? liabilities are way more complicated than it seems.
hatu 13y ago
I can understand not being pumped about having random people come and go if your neighbor is leasing out their place on a site like this regularly. As a traveler I like the service though.
tptacek 13y ago
I'm not sure it's all that different from Uber and the taxi industry: * The medallion system gives owners something significant to lose it they become scofflaws, and while we all have horror stories about cab drivers, anyone who's traveled to Asia (or, for that matter, Italy) knows that we have relatively well-behaved drivers, even in the cohorts selected for worst incentives. * The taxi companies are required to comply with rules that make taxis part of the fabric of transportation for the whole city (for instance, they're usually required to serve every destination within the city). Uber does not need to comply with these rules, and thus threatens not just cab companies but the transportation system as a whole.
- protomyth 13y ago
  I see your point and I guess I went a little far using "totally". In my mind, the governing factor in the taxi stories is a government created scarcity that results in some serious monopolies ($100,000 medallions). There is also a rather larger segment of private transportation other than cabs. The hotel / motel rules are less about scarcity than a history of really, really bad things happening. People's homes are a pretty big issue in when threatened by neighbors that can destroy everything you own. People get the possibility of a car accident even if it can be much, much worse.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I'm reminded of that incident where the Uber driver hit & killed a kid, and the way Uber dropped the driver like a hot rock. After all, they've got nothing to lose!
malandrew 13y ago
Why does it need to be a criminal issue though instead of merely a civil contract law issue? I would imagine that each landlord and each homeowner's association could come to their own agreements on what is and is not acceptable without the need for laws on the books.
- protomyth 13y ago
  "Why does it need to be a criminal issue though instead of merely a civil contract law issue?" I get the feeling it is more the origin of the law as a business regulation that drives the criminal part. I too wish more things were handled as basic contract law issues.

mjgoins 13y ago

One positive side effect of regulation is that overt racial discrimination is illegal. Black and Jewish folks used to have a hell of a time getting a hotel room in the US at various points in history. That became illegal with the 1960s civil rights laws, but recent media coverage suggests discrimination is rampant on Airbnb. It also used to be nearly impossible to find wheelchair-accessible hotels. I have no idea what the solution is here, but there are good things about regulation of these kinds of businesses.

uptown 13y ago

I'm sure there are some protectionist elements to it, but it also prevents people from taking zoning-laws into their own hands. If an area is zoned as a residential zone, it shouldn't be turned into a commercial (i.e. hotel) zone because a bunch of people decide to turn their properties into nightly-rentals. If somebody decides their apartment would make a great night-club, they can't just make it a nightclub because they own their apartment. Zoning laws are designed to create a symbiotic relationship throughout a community, and AirBNB does very little to discourage its users from ignoring those laws.

pdq 13y ago

It is protectionism for hotels. However, HOAs and City Councils will make the claims that this is to "protect" apartment owners from unknowing short-term sub-renting of their properties. We have the same problem here in Austin, except it is Taxis being protected against private drivers like Uber and Lyft. They claim this is to protect citizens from unlicensed drivers.

geebee 13y ago

There is also concern about the large scale conversion of long term residential and single family housing stock into short-term vacation rentals in a severely supply constrained region.