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TL;DR: Defending HFT’s argues for rewarding market participants who simply jump in front of the line b/c they see other people doing it, at the expense of parti
by jalopy 13y ago
TL;DR: Defending HFT’s argues for rewarding market participants who simply jump in front of the line b/c they see other people doing it, at the expense of participants who have worked hard to decided which line to get into.
Here's a more fundamental question to ask:
What kind of behavior do you want to reward in the stock market?
If you view the stock market as a bunch of numbers that wiggle around, where "information" is conveyed by the actions of other people participating in the market (ie, what they’re buying and selling), then the HFT's play a legitimate role in spreading that information around.
If you view the market as a place to buy and sell businesses (equivalently - shares of businesses), where capital is allocated to businesses commensurate with the value they provide to society, HFT's are parasites on the effort of others.
There are participants in the market that spent an enormous amount of time, diligence and thought into deciding allocating capital to businesses according to the value they ascribe to the businesses. For these participants, the signal they send by putting out their orders is currently taken advantage of by other participants who spend enormous time, effort and money into trying to “tap into” the result of the efforts put forward by the first group and rush to another exchange to buy up that company before anyone else gets there.
So: Do we really want to reward all of the effort spent building faster machines, communication links, and algorithms to jump right in front of someone in line? Or do we want to reward those people who are actually determining which businesses have intrinsic value and which do not?
It's easy to hate Einhorn or Ackman b/c they're rich. What's important to keep in mind is that they are custodians of and act on behalf of thousands, probably even millions of other people to improve their financial situation. Pensions, endowments, sovereign wealth funds, etc make up the bulk of the funds that Einhorn, Ackman and others invest. The fact that they're rich an indication of their legitimate hard work at researching and allocating capital and enhancing the financial well-being of their clients. (Note: yes, there are always bad apples that get rich by illicit (read: insider) means, but that is an exceedingly small amount of participants and over time they usually get caught).
Warren Buffett has often said that a perfectly good stock market would be one which is open only one day a year, where participants put up orders based on the value they actually ascribe to a business. If those orders cross, then trades occur - all in one day.
Makes you wonder what would happen to society in that market. Would people would be able to find a way to channel all the frenetic activity currently employed in chasing prices and watching others’ actions into a more productive endeavor?
- tptacek 13y agoDavid Einhorn is a hedge fund manager, not a mutual fund manager. Vanguard, one of the world's most reputable mutual fund managers, is on record as saying that HFT has improved their cost to trade. That was an easy point in your comment to respond to. The rest of it doesn't appear to have been based on Chris Stucchio's post at all; you could just as easily have posted it in every thread on HN about HFT. I must be missing something; what is it?
- klochner 13y agoIf we're all going to cite Vanguard, we should at least get the quote right: There are literally hundreds of strategies that are high-frequency trading, ranging all the way from those that really perform much of a market-making and liquidity-providing function to perhaps some on the opposite end of the spectrum, where they are abusive and trying to manipulate the market, " he said. Obviously, we need to get rid of those types of high-frequency traders, but I think the bulk of them are creating liquidity and reducing spreads for us, which has dramatically reduced costs.
- crdoconnor 13y agoThey said the same thing about the mortgage market abuses - "Oh, it's just a few bad apples." No. No it fucking isn't. Furthermore, letting the bad behavior go unpunished means the 'good' behavior gets driven out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law "Good" HFT strategies are nowadays obvious by one very salient fact: they're not very profitable. Most market making now, for instance, is simply cover - noise trading, basically - designed to disguise the real bad behavior (that the OP conveniently states is just 'very rare'... heh). HFTs aren't dumb. They know that any regulator or prosecutor will find it very hard to dig through the trading data and discern evidence of illegal behavior from individual trades.
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