5 ms·

Oh man, this resonates. I think in any organization you need a certain balance of those two personalities - but the philosophy degree sure makes the questioning

by andkon 13y ago

Oh man, this resonates. I think in any organization you need a certain balance of those two personalities - but the philosophy degree sure makes the questioning/skeptical folks more my type. And until I started my own company, I moved around a lot too. But now that I'm leading things that sort of incisive thinking is a boon (sometimes). When you say you get uncomfortable with a system, though, d'you mean ethically? Or just bored?

ACow_Adonis 13y ago
Honestly, in my own experience, which I'm loathe to use as advice for anyone else, I've had experiences that fall into both. Bored-wise i'll enter a job, get acquainted with a practice, and almost immediately see failings/things to improve/things I can automate. Then I will. It'll be great, and then I'll have sorted the problems that exist within the context of my little environment over which I have control, and everything will be going 2-3 times better, but then i become bored again... In the best case scenarios, if there's not scope for any new challenges/problems in the job/company, I tend to move on amicably at that point. However, there's been a few points where I've clashed "ethically". And this probably does have to do with philosophy, because its quite clear I've thought quite deeply about how I think I should live my life, and the minimum values I expect those around me to hold, and other's can be quite surprised/offended/awkward when you don't just go along with it all. I won't work with certain employers/jobs/industries (probably not what people are thinking, I'm not religious). So far this hasn't hindered me in terms of putting food on the table and living a comfortable life, but i accept it could one day, and I don't know what i'll do if I ever were to fall upon particularly hard times. But I try to live simply compared to most anyway :P Generally I try to do the right thing, then I'll leave if i can't. Its only really happened once so far, and the jobs I find obviously objectionable i've never applied for/accepted in the first place. I've taken some risks here and there which other people probably wouldn't have in that regard... Now, being a general philosophical person, I do wonder about the ethics of what I do, and god, looking back i've probably got some reflections and thoughts about that one...but I can sleep comfortably at night and don't really have any regrets yet :) I'm trying to work towards going it alone (or at least in charge) myself eventually....
- andkon 13y ago
  That's interesting. Maybe it's 'cause I've just watched the first episode of Silicon Valley but, for most people, even if you're not doing something obviously good for the world, there's huge internal pressure to feel as if you're making a big contribution to some big picture things that matter. That, I think, is why you get lots of "xyz startup is changing the world!" rhetoric. Because whether or not it is true, people worry about the optics of what they do, and need something meaningful to point to. To actually care about ethics involves making painful choices of the sort that it sounds like you've done. Say, choices that keep you from dying on the inside, but which are still painful. So kudos to you.
  - ACow_Adonis 13y ago
    See, not trying to bignote myself, but I've kinda gone through a "saving the world" phase. Not like the Silicon valley people. As in I took a job working with the unemployed, then I moved jobs to work for a group that works with and advocates for the homeless. Both have left me incredibly jaded. I thought I could go in with my gifts and do something for people. I couldn't, not really, and discovered charities and the like are full of self-interested/damaged people and politics much like anywhere else. I know exactly what you're talking about with the startup culture: "Saving the world with an advertising/smart-phone-app/messaging service". Every time Zuckerberg opens his mouth I wonder whether he believes or has thought about what he's saying, whether he's just saying it to use investor money to achieve his own ends, or whether he's just saying it to try to placate the public/silicon valley/himself. Which, look, I guess you just have to laugh at it. But i also guess that not buying into the workplace culture makes such places awkward to work at. I'm currently facing new moral dilemmas. Looking to move on again, but I'm seriously considering some of the grey areas I'd written off before (say working for big banks), primarily for the money. I reason if they can use me in a fraud analysis or something, maybe I could live with myself. Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to think about such things :P

by andkon 13y ago

ACow_Adonis 13y ago

Honestly, in my own experience, which I'm loathe to use as advice for anyone else, I've had experiences that fall into both. Bored-wise i'll enter a job, get acquainted with a practice, and almost immediately see failings/things to improve/things I can automate. Then I will. It'll be great, and then I'll have sorted the problems that exist within the context of my little environment over which I have control, and everything will be going 2-3 times better, but then i become bored again... In the best case scenarios, if there's not scope for any new challenges/problems in the job/company, I tend to move on amicably at that point. However, there's been a few points where I've clashed "ethically". And this probably does have to do with philosophy, because its quite clear I've thought quite deeply about how I think I should live my life, and the minimum values I expect those around me to hold, and other's can be quite surprised/offended/awkward when you don't just go along with it all. I won't work with certain employers/jobs/industries (probably not what people are thinking, I'm not religious). So far this hasn't hindered me in terms of putting food on the table and living a comfortable life, but i accept it could one day, and I don't know what i'll do if I ever were to fall upon particularly hard times. But I try to live simply compared to most anyway :P Generally I try to do the right thing, then I'll leave if i can't. Its only really happened once so far, and the jobs I find obviously objectionable i've never applied for/accepted in the first place. I've taken some risks here and there which other people probably wouldn't have in that regard... Now, being a general philosophical person, I do wonder about the ethics of what I do, and god, looking back i've probably got some reflections and thoughts about that one...but I can sleep comfortably at night and don't really have any regrets yet :) I'm trying to work towards going it alone (or at least in charge) myself eventually....

andkon 13y ago
That's interesting. Maybe it's 'cause I've just watched the first episode of Silicon Valley but, for most people, even if you're not doing something obviously good for the world, there's huge internal pressure to feel as if you're making a big contribution to some big picture things that matter. That, I think, is why you get lots of "xyz startup is changing the world!" rhetoric. Because whether or not it is true, people worry about the optics of what they do, and need something meaningful to point to. To actually care about ethics involves making painful choices of the sort that it sounds like you've done. Say, choices that keep you from dying on the inside, but which are still painful. So kudos to you.
- ACow_Adonis 13y ago
  See, not trying to bignote myself, but I've kinda gone through a "saving the world" phase. Not like the Silicon valley people. As in I took a job working with the unemployed, then I moved jobs to work for a group that works with and advocates for the homeless. Both have left me incredibly jaded. I thought I could go in with my gifts and do something for people. I couldn't, not really, and discovered charities and the like are full of self-interested/damaged people and politics much like anywhere else. I know exactly what you're talking about with the startup culture: "Saving the world with an advertising/smart-phone-app/messaging service". Every time Zuckerberg opens his mouth I wonder whether he believes or has thought about what he's saying, whether he's just saying it to use investor money to achieve his own ends, or whether he's just saying it to try to placate the public/silicon valley/himself. Which, look, I guess you just have to laugh at it. But i also guess that not buying into the workplace culture makes such places awkward to work at. I'm currently facing new moral dilemmas. Looking to move on again, but I'm seriously considering some of the grey areas I'd written off before (say working for big banks), primarily for the money. I reason if they can use me in a fraud analysis or something, maybe I could live with myself. Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to think about such things :P