4 ms·

> Donating $1000 to a hate group is not "behaving badly"? Prop 8 is a proposition, not a hate group. This redefinition is scary and files a "hate group" as bei

> Donating $1000 to a hate group is not "behaving badly"? Prop 8 is a proposition, not a hate group. This redefinition is scary and files a "hate group" as being anyone who disagrees with your position. Supporting a proposition is his right and it is ok. I don't see his intent as being hateful. Ignorant, but not hate. > If I have any vitriol at all, it's directed at his defenders and those that want to make him a martyr for "freedom of speech". That sounds like you hate me now. It also sounds like you hate freedom, sorry to say. I'm aware of the cliché, but you said it. Funny how the moderates are targeted by extremists. --- I'm getting into activism myself, so I understand how important this is to you. All I can say is keep your humanity & honor in the process. Your movement will be better off.

Karunamon 13y ago
The political organization that's behind Prop 8 (the people that Eich donated to, since you can't donate to a bill) quacks like a hate group in a number of ways, not least of which is they dehumanize and make fun of LGBTs. If you have not already, please view that slate.com link I sent you a couple posts ago. You can ignore the text there as it's basically what I've been saying here verbatim, but I would ask you to pay special attention to the videos - they are actual ads that the group put together and which actually aired in California. Maybe then you'll see why I apply this label - I didn't just arbitrarily dredge it up as the worst possible thing I could think of to call them. >That sounds like you hate me now. I find it very puzzling that you say I am practicing all this hatred by saying I find Eich's actions repugnant, and now you're saying I'm practicing hatred toward you by simply having a (remarkably civil and productive) discussion with you. Yet Eich is the guy who wants people to be second class citizens. Does. Not. Compute.
- scintill76 13y ago
  This article[0]? My response is that Eich didn't personally approve these ads, and may have had no way of possibly knowing what his money would actually fund. (I'd be interested in evidence about the visibility of any prior work, the timing of his donation, etc., though.) If you find simply supporting the idea repugnant, sure, but then arguments like "he donated to a hate group" and Slate's "The Campaign for Prop 8 Was Unprecedentedly Cruel" aren't really necessary. If they pushed a law that is hateful to the core, it's less relevant how hateful or not the group itself was. I suppose if he did see and regret the ads, he could have said so, but AFAIK has said nothing. Then again, he probably felt that doing anything other than a long thorough apology, donating to pro-gay-marriage groups, crying for forgiveness, etc., would dig the hole deeper. [0] http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_supported_prop_8_which_was_worse_than_you_remember.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_s...
- briantakita 13y ago
  > I find it very puzzling that you say I am practicing all this hatred by saying I find Eich's actions repugnant > If I have any vitriol at all, it's directed at his defenders and those that want to make him a martyr for "freedom of speech". I'm saying Eich freedom is being violated. I'm just repeating what you said and referring to your "vitriol". I understand where you are coming from. However, it's easy to misconstrue a position that someone took. Notice I used some weasel words such as "it sounds like". I could misconstrue your statement as you hating me. I believe that Eich's support & position is being misconstrued. He should be able to express the reasons for his support without fear of reprisal. I would not be surprised if he & his family were harassed, as harassment seems to accompany such emotionally charged situations. I would be fearful if I were publicly targeted like that. Even if you are right, you never bully people into agreeing with your position. I watched the commercials. The last one is ridiculous, since the couple should have answered that marriage is about love and not necessarily about having children. However, none of the commercials struck me as overtly discriminatory. The one with the two princesses, is somewhat discriminatory; However the position of parents (with religious convictions) should have control over their children's education at least deserved some consideration. To a parent, it coercive to (without warning), teach a child something that they disagree with. The ads expressed some legitimate concerns that should be addressed. There was even a point where someone was afraid that people's jobs would be targeted for their beliefs. Obviously that fear is well founded. I'm failing to see how this is a hate group. I believe some of the Prop 8 supporters were bigots, however, the campaign itself does not seem like it is based on hate. I fail to see how Eich is an aware supporter of hate groups.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    I'm saying Eich freedom is being violated But it simply isn't. First, consider the fact that he chose to step down. He wasn't booted out by Mozilla. Secondly, You have no entitlement, legally or morally to any particular job with any particular company. Eich is free to support any cause he wants, and everyone else is free to react to that how they want. That's freedom of speech - plain and simple. This same noise was made when A&E chose to (temporarily) end their contract with one of the stars of Duck Dynasty over his public comments in a magazine - again, no freedom being violated. That person was free to make whatever comments he wanted, and everyone else is free to criticize those comments, and the company in question is free to conduct their business operations in accordance with whatever contract law. Freedom of speech does not, and never has meant, freedom from criticism/repercussions. This is the system working as intended. I believe that Eich's support & position is being misconstrued How so? In what other circumstances does one donate to any cause, go out of their way to avoid directly addressing concerns with said donation, and eventually quit their jobs rather than address those concerns? That's not misconstruing, that's basic logical induction. If you have another plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. He should be able to express the reasons for his support without fear of reprisal. Again, freedom of speech != freedom from criticism. You do not have the right to say anything and never be challenged for it. You do have the right to say whatever you please and not have the government take some action against you. However, none of the commercials struck me as overtly discriminatory. We will have to agree to disagree on that. I find them to be offensive, inaccurate, hateful fear-mongering. Partially because they target me personally. Hate doesn't necessarily imply violence or the threat thereof. The campaign itself does not seem like it is based on hate. Then what is it based on?

Karunamon 13y ago

The political organization that's behind Prop 8 (the people that Eich donated to, since you can't donate to a bill) quacks like a hate group in a number of ways, not least of which is they dehumanize and make fun of LGBTs. If you have not already, please view that slate.com link I sent you a couple posts ago. You can ignore the text there as it's basically what I've been saying here verbatim, but I would ask you to pay special attention to the videos - they are actual ads that the group put together and which actually aired in California. Maybe then you'll see why I apply this label - I didn't just arbitrarily dredge it up as the worst possible thing I could think of to call them. >That sounds like you hate me now. I find it very puzzling that you say I am practicing all this hatred by saying I find Eich's actions repugnant, and now you're saying I'm practicing hatred toward you by simply having a (remarkably civil and productive) discussion with you. Yet Eich is the guy who wants people to be second class citizens. Does. Not. Compute.

scintill76 13y ago
This article[0]? My response is that Eich didn't personally approve these ads, and may have had no way of possibly knowing what his money would actually fund. (I'd be interested in evidence about the visibility of any prior work, the timing of his donation, etc., though.) If you find simply supporting the idea repugnant, sure, but then arguments like "he donated to a hate group" and Slate's "The Campaign for Prop 8 Was Unprecedentedly Cruel" aren't really necessary. If they pushed a law that is hateful to the core, it's less relevant how hateful or not the group itself was. I suppose if he did see and regret the ads, he could have said so, but AFAIK has said nothing. Then again, he probably felt that doing anything other than a long thorough apology, donating to pro-gay-marriage groups, crying for forgiveness, etc., would dig the hole deeper. [0] http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_supported_prop_8_which_was_worse_than_you_remember.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/04/04/brendan_eich_s...
briantakita 13y ago
> I find it very puzzling that you say I am practicing all this hatred by saying I find Eich's actions repugnant > If I have any vitriol at all, it's directed at his defenders and those that want to make him a martyr for "freedom of speech". I'm saying Eich freedom is being violated. I'm just repeating what you said and referring to your "vitriol". I understand where you are coming from. However, it's easy to misconstrue a position that someone took. Notice I used some weasel words such as "it sounds like". I could misconstrue your statement as you hating me. I believe that Eich's support & position is being misconstrued. He should be able to express the reasons for his support without fear of reprisal. I would not be surprised if he & his family were harassed, as harassment seems to accompany such emotionally charged situations. I would be fearful if I were publicly targeted like that. Even if you are right, you never bully people into agreeing with your position. I watched the commercials. The last one is ridiculous, since the couple should have answered that marriage is about love and not necessarily about having children. However, none of the commercials struck me as overtly discriminatory. The one with the two princesses, is somewhat discriminatory; However the position of parents (with religious convictions) should have control over their children's education at least deserved some consideration. To a parent, it coercive to (without warning), teach a child something that they disagree with. The ads expressed some legitimate concerns that should be addressed. There was even a point where someone was afraid that people's jobs would be targeted for their beliefs. Obviously that fear is well founded. I'm failing to see how this is a hate group. I believe some of the Prop 8 supporters were bigots, however, the campaign itself does not seem like it is based on hate. I fail to see how Eich is an aware supporter of hate groups.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  I'm saying Eich freedom is being violated But it simply isn't. First, consider the fact that he chose to step down. He wasn't booted out by Mozilla. Secondly, You have no entitlement, legally or morally to any particular job with any particular company. Eich is free to support any cause he wants, and everyone else is free to react to that how they want. That's freedom of speech - plain and simple. This same noise was made when A&E chose to (temporarily) end their contract with one of the stars of Duck Dynasty over his public comments in a magazine - again, no freedom being violated. That person was free to make whatever comments he wanted, and everyone else is free to criticize those comments, and the company in question is free to conduct their business operations in accordance with whatever contract law. Freedom of speech does not, and never has meant, freedom from criticism/repercussions. This is the system working as intended. I believe that Eich's support & position is being misconstrued How so? In what other circumstances does one donate to any cause, go out of their way to avoid directly addressing concerns with said donation, and eventually quit their jobs rather than address those concerns? That's not misconstruing, that's basic logical induction. If you have another plausible theory, I'd love to hear it. He should be able to express the reasons for his support without fear of reprisal. Again, freedom of speech != freedom from criticism. You do not have the right to say anything and never be challenged for it. You do have the right to say whatever you please and not have the government take some action against you. However, none of the commercials struck me as overtly discriminatory. We will have to agree to disagree on that. I find them to be offensive, inaccurate, hateful fear-mongering. Partially because they target me personally. Hate doesn't necessarily imply violence or the threat thereof. The campaign itself does not seem like it is based on hate. Then what is it based on?