3 ms·

The protocol in Japan is to leave your stuff at the table and go take your dump. In fact, it's protocol that when you enter a coffeeshop (starbucks, mc donalds,

The protocol in Japan is to leave your stuff at the table and go take your dump. In fact, it's protocol that when you enter a coffeeshop (starbucks, mc donalds, etc.), first find out if there is a free seat. It could be on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd floor. Leave your stuff there to claim the seat. Then go back to the 1st floor counter, order and get your drinks/food, wait to receive them, walk back to your stuff. The point you should get from this is that PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY SUCK AND YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED YOU LIVE IN SUCH A SHITTY CULTURE AND THAT YOU TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOUR STUFF BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL STEAL IT. After living in a country with very little violence, a country where you don't have to pull your car radio out of your car, where you don't have worry about what alleys you walk down, a country where if you leave your bags or wallet on a train you'll get them back, I was very ashamed of my own country, the USA, where I used to think I was safe but in reality I'd just learned to avoid the ever present danger rather than do something to fix it. Now comes all the replies telling me how much Japan sucks in other ways. That's not the point.

Crito 13y ago
Your comment has plenty of interesting content, but telling people that they should be ashamed to live somewhere where other people commit crimes is completely senseless. Those people have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to be ashamed of.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Your comment has plenty of interesting content, but telling people that they should be ashamed to live somewhere where other people commit crimes is completely senseless. Arguably, the attitude that this is senseless -- that, IOW, people have no responsibility for the qualities of the broader society -- is part of the problem.
  - Crito 13y ago
    Realistically, somebody who is the victim of petty theft is not responsible for the circumstances that led somebody to become a thief. Expecting people who were robbed to feel ashamed that they were robbed is absurd. They are a victim. Not to mention that most people do not have the resources to relocate themselves to a country with less crime. Greggman expecting these people to feel ashamed that they have been unable to flee their country is worse than absurd; it is patently offensive. If the thief can be said to be a victim of circumstance and therefore not responsible for their actions, then the same can be said even more strongly of their victims.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      > If the thief can be said to be a victim of circumstance and therefore not responsible for their actions He can't, fairly, so no conclusion can rest upon this premise.
    - greggman 13y ago
      My response wasn't to the victim. It was to the commenter that basically suggested it should be common sense the victim shouldn't have left his stuff out. That shouldn't be common sense. It's shameful that we think it is.
- baddox 13y ago
  There are actually two similar but distinct interpretations of "ashamed" and "embarrassed." One implies that there is direct personal responsibility involved, as in "you deliberately lied to me, so you should be ashamed of yourself." The other is essentially the opposite of feeling pride, and doesn't imply any personal responsibility, as in "I'm ashamed that my school would make such bad decisions." You're assuming the first interpretation, but one could, through application of the principle of charity, assume the second interpretation.
erddojo 13y ago
Yes, you are SO enlightened. Gosh I hate when this happens. An American goes overseas, and suddenly thinks they've discovered nirvana and that everyone back home is now inferior. There's gotta be a name for this syndrome. Every culture has good stuff and bad stuff. There's no need to scream in all caps about the USA because people in a major city center recommend one doesn't leave $3k worth of gear unattended in a busy coffee shop.
- greggman 13y ago
  IMO there is. Because we put up with it. We take for granted that "of course leaving $3k of stuff at a busy coffee shop it's going to get stolen". That's the problem. That we accept it. There's a whole set of rules we've learned to work around these problems. We think they're common sense. That is until we experience places that point out they aren't common sense. Rather they're just a way of letting us not actually deal with the problem. The response to "I left my stuff out and it got stolen" shouldn't be "Oh, you shouldn't have left your stuff out". It should be "we should catch that criminal and find a way to make it so it's safe to leave your stuff out". And I didn't say Japan or Singapore were nirvana. Only that one part of them points out things we take for granted shouldn't be taken for granted.

Crito 13y ago

Your comment has plenty of interesting content, but telling people that they should be ashamed to live somewhere where other people commit crimes is completely senseless. Those people have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to be ashamed of.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Your comment has plenty of interesting content, but telling people that they should be ashamed to live somewhere where other people commit crimes is completely senseless. Arguably, the attitude that this is senseless -- that, IOW, people have no responsibility for the qualities of the broader society -- is part of the problem.
- Crito 13y ago
  Realistically, somebody who is the victim of petty theft is not responsible for the circumstances that led somebody to become a thief. Expecting people who were robbed to feel ashamed that they were robbed is absurd. They are a victim. Not to mention that most people do not have the resources to relocate themselves to a country with less crime. Greggman expecting these people to feel ashamed that they have been unable to flee their country is worse than absurd; it is patently offensive. If the thief can be said to be a victim of circumstance and therefore not responsible for their actions, then the same can be said even more strongly of their victims.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > If the thief can be said to be a victim of circumstance and therefore not responsible for their actions He can't, fairly, so no conclusion can rest upon this premise.
  - greggman 13y ago
    My response wasn't to the victim. It was to the commenter that basically suggested it should be common sense the victim shouldn't have left his stuff out. That shouldn't be common sense. It's shameful that we think it is.
baddox 13y ago
There are actually two similar but distinct interpretations of "ashamed" and "embarrassed." One implies that there is direct personal responsibility involved, as in "you deliberately lied to me, so you should be ashamed of yourself." The other is essentially the opposite of feeling pride, and doesn't imply any personal responsibility, as in "I'm ashamed that my school would make such bad decisions." You're assuming the first interpretation, but one could, through application of the principle of charity, assume the second interpretation.

erddojo 13y ago

Yes, you are SO enlightened. Gosh I hate when this happens. An American goes overseas, and suddenly thinks they've discovered nirvana and that everyone back home is now inferior. There's gotta be a name for this syndrome. Every culture has good stuff and bad stuff. There's no need to scream in all caps about the USA because people in a major city center recommend one doesn't leave $3k worth of gear unattended in a busy coffee shop.

greggman 13y ago
IMO there is. Because we put up with it. We take for granted that "of course leaving $3k of stuff at a busy coffee shop it's going to get stolen". That's the problem. That we accept it. There's a whole set of rules we've learned to work around these problems. We think they're common sense. That is until we experience places that point out they aren't common sense. Rather they're just a way of letting us not actually deal with the problem. The response to "I left my stuff out and it got stolen" shouldn't be "Oh, you shouldn't have left your stuff out". It should be "we should catch that criminal and find a way to make it so it's safe to leave your stuff out". And I didn't say Japan or Singapore were nirvana. Only that one part of them points out things we take for granted shouldn't be taken for granted.