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I do believe you've neglected to mention Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and mindfulness meditation. You did mention cognitive talk therapy with a professional, b

by canadev 13y ago

I do believe you've neglected to mention Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and mindfulness meditation. You did mention cognitive talk therapy with a professional, but my reading of David Burns' books (and my subsequent personal experience) leads me to believe that it can be effective when done by someone by themselves (and in combination with medicine and or talk therapy). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBSR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBSR http://www.mindandlife.org/ http://www.mindandlife.org/

hga 13y ago
Indeed. The popular book by Burns (http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336/ http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808...) in an earlier '80s edition before the behavioral angle was added made a significant and permanent improvement in my life, all done by myself, although with medicine and talk therapy added to the mix (my depression is not standard "unipolar affective disorder" and medicine is key to improving it, but not a complete solution).
sjtrny 13y ago
Sounds like voodoo to me.
- hga 13y ago
  What do you find implausible about the thesis that if you think bad things about yourself, you can make yourself feel bad? (Granted, I don't know about the "behavioral" addition to cognitive therapy, but the latter is on a sound footing in every way, from theory to practice, and I can personally attest to it being effective.)
  - sjtrny 13y ago
    '“Depression is not an emotional disorder at all! Every bad feeling you have is the result of your negative thinking.” In this paper, I intend to give this conclusion some good natured trouble.' http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/cognitive-behavioral-therapy/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-escape-binds-tight-methodology/page/0/1?cid=fb http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/cognitive-behavioral-therapy...
- DanBC 13y ago
  CBT has an excellent evidence base and if you had read the references already posted to this thread you would have known that. Mindfulness also has good evidence, but tends to be used with more severe forms of depression or other diagnoses such as borderline personality disorder. The comment "sounds like voodoo to me" is unconstructive. I don't care what something sounds like to you. If you had said why it sounds like voodoo, why you have a problem with any of the research that supports it or the Cochrane reviews or the NICE guidance then there's something to talk about.
  - sjtrny 13y ago
    I looked at the Wikipedia articles and they referenced studies where the conclusion ranged from "needs further study" and "slight effect". It seems like it might be more placebo effect (granted this is still a real effect) but it means that you can probably use any sort of similar "therapy" in its place.
    - DanBC 13y ago
      Did you bother to look at a credible site such as the Cochrane Collaboration?
      - sjtrny 13y ago
        Did you bother to read the criticisms section found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy? No double blind studies. "The patient is an active participant in correcting negative distorted thoughts, thus quite aware of the treatment group they are in." "This study concluded that CBT is no better than non-specific control interventions", which I already guessed at in my previous comment. "Taken together, trials using psychotherapy do not meet the qualifications of high quality evidence."

by canadev 13y ago

hga 13y ago

Indeed. The popular book by Burns (http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336/ http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-The-Mood-Therapy/dp/03808...) in an earlier '80s edition before the behavioral angle was added made a significant and permanent improvement in my life, all done by myself, although with medicine and talk therapy added to the mix (my depression is not standard "unipolar affective disorder" and medicine is key to improving it, but not a complete solution).

sjtrny 13y ago

Sounds like voodoo to me.

hga 13y ago
What do you find implausible about the thesis that if you think bad things about yourself, you can make yourself feel bad? (Granted, I don't know about the "behavioral" addition to cognitive therapy, but the latter is on a sound footing in every way, from theory to practice, and I can personally attest to it being effective.)
- sjtrny 13y ago
  '“Depression is not an emotional disorder at all! Every bad feeling you have is the result of your negative thinking.” In this paper, I intend to give this conclusion some good natured trouble.' http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/cognitive-behavioral-therapy/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-escape-binds-tight-methodology/page/0/1?cid=fb http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/cognitive-behavioral-therapy...
DanBC 13y ago
CBT has an excellent evidence base and if you had read the references already posted to this thread you would have known that. Mindfulness also has good evidence, but tends to be used with more severe forms of depression or other diagnoses such as borderline personality disorder. The comment "sounds like voodoo to me" is unconstructive. I don't care what something sounds like to you. If you had said why it sounds like voodoo, why you have a problem with any of the research that supports it or the Cochrane reviews or the NICE guidance then there's something to talk about.
- sjtrny 13y ago
  I looked at the Wikipedia articles and they referenced studies where the conclusion ranged from "needs further study" and "slight effect". It seems like it might be more placebo effect (granted this is still a real effect) but it means that you can probably use any sort of similar "therapy" in its place.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Did you bother to look at a credible site such as the Cochrane Collaboration?
    - sjtrny 13y ago
      Did you bother to read the criticisms section found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy? No double blind studies. "The patient is an active participant in correcting negative distorted thoughts, thus quite aware of the treatment group they are in." "This study concluded that CBT is no better than non-specific control interventions", which I already guessed at in my previous comment. "Taken together, trials using psychotherapy do not meet the qualifications of high quality evidence."