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HN'ers asking why this isn't a cell phone app take note - this exemplifies why we (geeks) don't make good use cases for consumer tech and we should always be ca

• crazychrome 13y ago
  One thing I learnt over the years is as simple as this: don't be blind to challenge the current paradigm. once upon a time it's desktop application on windows. then the search. now it's app on mobile phone. I think you are on the right analytic route but somehow down to wrong direction. the mass market just doesn't want more than one ways to consume computing. at a given time, vast majority of consumer want to learn exactly one thing (WIMP, google, App with touch support) and then apply the knowledge everywhere. the cost of migration to new paradigm for the mass market is so high that minor mutations would have to live with sub 10% share. (think about MacOS in window's high day, bing/yahoo in google's day, and Nokia). will Dash have a market? yes. will it be successful? no.
• duaakshay 13y ago
  Absolutely agree! Also while this could very easily have been built as a phone app, scanning barcodes, voicing out groceries would first require the user to start up the app a first step. Its almost like Google Ware as dedicated hardware for Google Now!
• 27182818284 13y ago
  >HN'ers asking why this isn't a cell phone app take note - this exemplifies why we (geeks) don't make good use cases Whoa, whoa, whoa! I still have a working CueCat. I think the Jury is way still out on this. I'm betting it will do better than the CueCat because Amazon as a company has a better track record, but assuming this was a brilliant move to use a proprietary, non-smart phone device is—it is just way too early! For example, all it takes is the next generation of phone to be like, "Hey we should improve our barcode scanning in the next Samsung Galaxy SVI The Undiscovered Country." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CueCat
• zanny 13y ago
  Opening an app is, thankfully, something the tech industry has managed to train the average consumer to do. I'd argue though remembering where you put this thing, or "oh hey the wifi password got changed why isn't the food scanner working?" adds lots more complexity than hitting an app icon. The app route also enables you to have multiple scanners - since the target audience of such a product is probably already heavy on tech, and most probably have multiple cell phones. I guess that last line might be the issue. It isn't really a cell phone, it is a capacitive touch computer with a microphone and speaker, but that is something we haven't yet conveyed well.
  • vuzum 13y ago
    They released this amazing piece of hardware, and then they can use the same technology to complement it with an app. So you have both worlds happy - with or without a smartphone in the house. ;)
  • dotBen 13y ago
    Respectfully, there's geek-thinking again. Wifi password changing is a straw-man argument - most households use the default SSID and password that came with the router (if you don't believe me go to a residential area outside of SF and see how many 2WireXXX or ATTXXXX SSID's there are). Those that do set their own password never change it again. Apps enabling multiple scanners - again assumes multiple smartphone ownership in the house in order for everyone to use it vs just having a single dedicated scanner that (as Amazon suggests in their site) hangs on your refrigerator. I'm not even sure the average consumer is sufficiently trained yet about opening apps. I heard a segment on NPR recently where multiple callers (and the host) referred to a company's mobile-optimized website as an "app", many normal people don't really know what an app really is. I'll dig out the Pew Research study on mobile phones that said something like 20% of smartphone owners don't install any apps on their phones beyond those that came with the device (perhaps because they're fuzzy on the concept). UPDATE: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-01-30/smartphone-app-usage/52891556/1 http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-01-30/sm... - 17% of smartphone owners don't use any apps at all according to Pew.
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• ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Actually I think it is simpler than that, there was a time when the programmability of the phone was so much better than you could do in a cost effective embedded system that it was the right choice. Now you can put a 32 bit ARM Cortex M on a device for $3 and so spending on the plastic is more feasible.
  • akramhussein 13y ago
    You are probably right. I think some M3s have a DSP which could be leveraged for the voice portions. I'd imagine they also have a TI CC3000-like module with the whole TCP/IP stack to handle the comms. Maybe not necessarily the 3000, as they offer same functionality in larger sized modules for a lower cost. Further, I'd say TI also because of their SimpleLink system, which allows you to connect to Wi-Fi without entering SSIDs/passwords on a device. You'd just need to download the Amazon app to facilitate the initial connection if I understand it correctly.
    • akramhussein 13y ago
      UPDATE: Came across this video (40 seconds in), which all but confirms SimpleLink - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLOzF0Y4Mqw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLOzF0Y4Mqw
• Rusky 13y ago
  > Ultimately we shouldn't assume consumers value convergence, especially when it creates ever increasing complexity in user experience Reminds me of this excellent article by Bret Victor: http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesign/ http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi... Making everything an app narrows the bandwidth between the user and the tool. Now everyone needs a phone, and you can't leave the scanner where it gets used, and you have to go through the generalized touch interface to get to the functionality instead of (and this is a valid UI) just picking up the scanner.
  • sukuriant 13y ago
    I have never read that article before; but, it was absolutely amazing. Thanks for bringing it up!
• hoka 13y ago
  To some extent, though. When I'm home, my mother gets extremely frustrated (still!) that there isn't one remote that does everything.
  • tormeh 13y ago
    Yeah, but she doesn't want all the buttons from all the remotes moved to a single monstermote, she wants the TV remote to do everything as if the only thing connected was a TV. "Why do I have to choose channels on my TV AND cable/satellite box?" and "why are there multiple sound levels for the HiFi, TV, cable and DVD boxes?" are questions no one has adequately answered and they're questions everyone except geeks and techno-fetishists are asking. I actually want Apple to do something about this, though I'm not normally in on Apple's philosophy. I propose the following: 1. Any TV channel without content on it goes away. If you only have 3 channels with signal you get no benefit from being able to select 96 channels of white noise. 2. Cable/satellite channels stack on top of the TV channels. It just looks like your TV has more over-the-air channels when you plug in the box. 3. DVD-players and so on are treated as channels (see 3). EXT goes away. A device can be represented by as many channels as it wants, but they're all stacked on top of the TV channels. No special treatment, except perhaps a lower number. A device is turned on when you select a channel associated with it. 4. Any sound systems automatically defer to the settings on the TV. They behave as if they were the TV speakers. No setup. No settings. No knobs to turn. Plug and Play. If a sound system has buttons it's too complicated. 5. DVD/BR players lose all but play/pause, ff/rwd and the nevigational buttons. Why is there a numpad on my DVD remote? I don't even want to know. Just make it go away. Same with the TV remote itself: Everything except on/off, numpad and volume disappears. Remotes are not unified, but everything that can be deferred to the TV remote is deferred to it. The above isn't completely perfect, but it's kind of obvious. I'm currently studying but I might be available for hiring or consulting. I obviously compare favorably with whoever is maintaining the status quo.
    • FireBeyond 13y ago
      What of Logitech's Harmony system? It works around the concept of activities. "Watch TV" - it asks initially, "What input is the TV set to?" "What remote do you use to control the volume?" "What remote to change the channel?" And from then on, it works. It doesn't cover all on your list, but it has the potential.
• mrxd 13y ago
  Agreed. Other advantages: A dedicated device means everyone in the household can use it without the friction of having to help everyone find the app and register with the same account. People without phones (like kids) can use it. It's designed to sit on the kitchen counter or hooked on to something. That physical presence reminds you to use it when you're in the kitchen, where an app buried on the last page of the home screen is easy to forget. The camera-based barcode scanners like the one built into the Amazon mobile app are significantly more difficult to use than laser scanners. In a grocery shopping context, shoppers will purchase dozens of different products and every bit of additional frustration and delay matters. One issue with the website: the hero image is really bad. The background is blurred out so there's no context and there are no other objects in the frame so I have no sense of scale. If there was like an apple next to it or something, and you could see it was in a kitchen, that would be so much better.
  • BallinBige 13y ago
    I have to kindly disagree. Every one is becoming increasingly more addicted to their iDevices or Android devices. It doesnt have anything to do with IQ, its common sense to use whats on you - your 'smart phone.
    • wbillingsley 13y ago
      "...go ahead and grab it with flour on your hands". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't grab my smartphone with flour on my hands. Neither would I be trying to take a picture of a barcode with my cellphone in one hand, baby in the other, phone cover flapping down over my hand making it tricky to see what I'm doing while I try to pudge a greasy thumb at the "shoot" button while... blast I dropped it and it's bounced off the granite bench top onto the tiled floor. "My smartphone has this computational ability" does not equal "my smartphone is in any way designed to be ergonomic or convenient for this task"
  • lovemenot 13y ago
    And here's a few more. Dash device is an exemplar of a service in the same way that a Kindle device is. Amazon retains the option to later go the other way too, but while the constraint is still on the supply side (limited markets) this device serves to fix the service as a thing and generate publicity. Also, the platform is controlled by Amazon. Free from interference by Apple, Google, OEM or carrier. Wifi and internet aside, all support issues will be standard and coming back to the same place. For a mass-market voice UI device with no screen, at this stage in the game, voice recognition has to be best in class. I doubt Amazon could have managed this through a plethora of mobile devices. And they would not want their commercial voice data to be processed on Apple's or Google's servers via OS services. I expect a tear-down will show that some of the parts used are, for now, relatively expensive, but at volume, this device can become a give-away / throw-away.
• rickdale 13y ago
  That's true, our non technical parents can be funny with technology. But from my experience it all comes down to motivation. My mom has a hard time plugging in her computer and definitely can't remember the power button is on the back, but put her on a dating website and she is like a little kid texting.
• pinaceae 13y ago
  you talk as if this already was a runaway success with consumers. did i miss something? cuecat bombed as well. maybe it will take off, maybe it will not. drawing any conclusions right now is bs.
  • ctdonath 13y ago
    Many products come before their time, then bomb. Time passes, technology catches up, society gets ready, business models evolve, and the product succeeds.
  • interstitial 13y ago
    Did you get the memo? HN users can deduce the future from a few well stated postulates that engender no controversy or original thought. When expectations are shattered by renegades and outliers, HN spends the next two weeks publishing reasons why we knew it all along.
  • johnny99 13y ago
    The cuecat has had an interesting second life as a book scanner. Niche market, yes, but works great for the purpose.
• deleted 13y ago
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  • zhemao 13y ago
    It sounds like you're not familiar with Amazon Fresh (understandable given that it's currently only available in 3 cities in the US). You don't have to use this device to buy groceries from Amazon Fresh. You can just use their run-of-the-mill web store. https://fresh.amazon.com/welcome https://fresh.amazon.com/welcome It's been available in Seattle for almost a year now, long before this thing came out.
    • simcop2387 13y ago
      Along with that they already have a phone app for android at least. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.demiroot.amazonfresh https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.demiroot.a...
• ericcumbee 13y ago
  This if Amazon Fresh were available in her Area is targeted right at my grandmother. She Has Macular Degeneration and can not drive. My Grandfather has to drive and his energy level seems to diminish by the day. So needless to say Grocery Shopping takes both of them. With her eyes a smartphone is more or less useless. But this having a speech function seems like it would be perfect for her.
• Zigurd 13y ago
  2010 called and wants it's smartphones-are-for-rich-geeks product formulation back. Everyone who would buy their groceries via Amazon has a smartphone. This device is as baffling as it looks. With a smartphone you have the choice of UPC code scanning, QR codes, or label/logo recognition (as in Goggles). One of the photos implies it is a laser bar code scanner. So if this gizmo is useful, it's because it would be faster and more reliable than photographing bar codes. Not because potential users don't have, or can't use a phone camera for this purpose.
  • ANH 13y ago
    You're forgetting the voice recognition. What if there's no barcode to scan? The Fire TV voice search is excellent -- I used it last night -- and if the Dash has similar tech then it might actually be a useful supplement to the apps.
    • Nullabillity 13y ago
      And they could stuff the same software in a phone too.
  • larrys 13y ago
    "it would be faster" Friction is key. The example I typically use is "if the laser printer were in the basement vs. next to your desk how much would you use it?" A device that you can pick up, hit a button, and do your thing has less friction than doing the same on a smartphone.
    • philwelch 13y ago
      My smartphone is always within reach for me because I'm addicted to it. This thing? It's somewhere in the kitchen maybe.
      • deleted 13y ago
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      • jonknee 13y ago
• maxerickson 13y ago
  I would argue that things that introduce complexity are just bad forms of integration. It's easy to conceive of device boxes just adding channels to the TV, or having a protocol for using the TV remote to navigate their menu (this is a great opportunity to create a bad experience, but it wouldn't have to).
• tomasien 13y ago
  True, but shouldn't it ALSO be an app? Maybe in the works, I dunno.
  • jeffgreco 13y ago
    There is already a dedicated Amazon Fresh app, I'd imagine they'll integrate the functionality.
• dsugarman 13y ago
  I understand what you are saying but I feel like you overlook the power of having everything on one device, if you are at a friend's house eating something new you like you will likely have your phone on you. Also this viewpoint id's really shortsighted, everyone will be very used to using your cellphone for everything as our generation ages
  • larrys 13y ago
    " if you are at a friend's house eating something new you like you will likely have your phone on you" Nothing will prevent you from doing that also (I'm sure). Just like you can own a kindle but also read kindle books on, for example, an iphone.
• dm2 13y ago
  I think you're missing the main reason why they made the separate device, to generate more sales. If you receive a free device in the mail that can scan your groceries, you'll use it. If you receive a link to a free app then there is a much slimmer chance that you'll use the service and purchase the products.
• nnq 13y ago
  > Ultimately we shouldn't assume consumers value convergence Yep, indeed. And the frustrating part is that they choose "easy" over "simple" and end up drowning themselves in "complexity". And they go like "I have so many devices already, and I've already went through the pain of learning to use them, I'm not going to bother to learn the mobile app you talk about too, even if it you say it can replace them all and save me money, it's jut too much for my brain, this I already know, go away!". Big win for the sellers of these devices that are first to get to the market. Amazon will win big with these! The interesting people is how can we educate consumers to value what we call "convergence", because their current way of thinking hurts both themselves (they end up spending more and being too "overloaded" to be capable to make the best shopping decisions, or the other extreme, having access only to "curated slices of the market" with the same consequences) and to the tech sector as a whole (yeah, more devices mean more innovation at start, but since convergence will happen anyway at a point, all we end up is reinventing wheels and generating tons of needless complexity that we drown ourselves in...). (for a definition of how I use 'simple', 'easy' and 'complex' refer to - http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy it's about programming but I think the metaphors also apply to UI/X)