5 ms·

Part of me suspects you didn't actually read the article. While the title is sort of link-baity, the actual content is interesting in that it compares Google An

by cshenoy 13y ago

Part of me suspects you didn't actually read the article. While the title is sort of link-baity, the actual content is interesting in that it compares Google Analytics, server logs, and his Google Adwords campaigns to the Facebook one. I don't think his conclusion is that Facebook ads don't work. It's more that Facebook is charging him for false clicks and non-unique clicks. His last sentence sums up his own experience: "But it definitely doesn’t seem like you are getting what you pay for, and certainly the value, at least for my site is not there."

DivByZero 13y ago
Screw the cpc and the fake clicks :) they exist, nothing you can do about it, live with it. The only thing you should consider to get to any conclusion is the overall CPA. Facebook is a different beast from AdWords, you cannot simply target people searching for "Online budgeting tool". You have to find a good demographic and that requires lot's of testing. From that point of view $50 is actually meaningless. Yeah ... he can say that Facebook is charging him for fake clicks ... that's an old news :)
- Silhouette 13y ago
  You're saying that if Facebook is fraudulently charging advertising customers for more than they are really supplying, that's OK and we should all just deal with it? Really? FWIW, the last few small scale Facebook campaigns we've run at one of my companies followed a broadly similar pattern to the one described in the article, and we too have checked against our various analytics tools and server logs for comparison, finding the quality of Facebook's referrals far lower than any other source. However, we do have some other plausible theories about why this might be the case. For example, if visitors to our (B2C, leisure-related) site first see the ad on mobile while they're at work, they're unlikely to explore significantly at the time, but might come back later. We do tend to see a significant spike in both direct visitors and visitors via search engines while we're running FB campaigns that would be compatible with that theory. Even so, it's very awkward to audit what is really going on with Facebook ads. This is partly because it's hard to determine which clicks claimed by Facebook are actually coming through to our landing page and which are either phantom clicks or other events like Facebook "Likes" that aren't worth anything unless they ultimately translate into paying visitors. It's also hard to track how much money is ultimately charged, because the charges they actually make where they collect real money and the corresponding notifications they send out seem to be based on arbitrary billing periods that don't necessarily correspond to specific days/campaigns where you originally set your budget. At this point, given the number of reports of strange patterns that do correspond to our own experience, we are sceptical both about how many clicks we get through FB are deliberate rather than "accidental" and about how FB accounts for clicks and calculates its charges. As a small business in a niche market, our FB campaigns only have a small budget and usually they at least break even almost immediately, so we tolerate the uncertainties because our bottom line is usually positive anyway. Even so, the lack of transparency and amount of potential funny business we see at FB is disconcerting, and it certainly makes us hesitant to commit serious money to any FB campaigns in the future.
  - DivByZero 13y ago
    Of course I'm not saying that it's extremely frustrating both to have click fraud and having little data from Facebook to better understand what's going on. I totally agree with that. However: 1) I don't think Facebook would be so stupid to intentionally fraud on clicks ... the damage could be much bigger than the gain. I'm pretty sure this is mainly due to click farm, bots and so on. 2) I don't care about the click fraud. I don't advertise to get clicks. I advertise to get customers. As long as the overall CPA I get from Facebook is lower than AdWords I'll keep advertising on Facebook.
r12e 13y ago
Strongly agree. I was expecting another low-quality Facebook-bashing article but was pleasantly surprised with how thoroughly the author tracked the visits (FB reports > server logs > Analytics). The whole mis-clicking on mobile rings true for me, particularly. I'm forever accidentally 'liking' posts when just trying to view the comments. I've run a few campaigns and always managed to break even. I believe the key to success is very selective, and often slightly obscure, targeting.
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stonemetal 13y ago
What is the driver of false clicks on FB? So far as I know it isn't like Google where a third party will be paid something for the click. Isn't FB the only one getting paid when I click a FB ad?
- lutusp 13y ago
  > What is the driver of false clicks on FB? Facebook's reputation as en effective advertiser is improved. As Deep Throat said during the Watergate scandal, "Follow the money."
  - DivByZero 13y ago
    How fake clicks that don't generate business results would improve Facebook reputation as an effective advertiser ? Actually every time these posts comes out (once a week lately) Facebook reputation is hurt.
    - lutusp 13y ago
      > How fake clicks that don't generate business results would improve Facebook reputation as an effective advertiser ? In online advertising, there's a pretty big chasm between when people think is going on, and reality. Facebook has every incentive to increase their apparent standing in the online advertising business, and the fact that some of the traffic is bogus may not matter to anyone but a purist (or a client). Consider that everyone in the business has some bogus traffic. Maybe the players feel they can compare statistics without bothering to find out how much is nonsense masquerading as business. > Actually every time these posts comes out (once a week lately) Facebook reputation is hurt. Yes, that's true, but a corporate strategy might be to simply say, "We're working on this problem", and hope no one pays too much attention to the actual level of effort.
  - yogKarma 13y ago
    I didn't get that. Elaborate?
    - 13y ago

by cshenoy 13y ago

DivByZero 13y ago

Screw the cpc and the fake clicks :) they exist, nothing you can do about it, live with it. The only thing you should consider to get to any conclusion is the overall CPA. Facebook is a different beast from AdWords, you cannot simply target people searching for "Online budgeting tool". You have to find a good demographic and that requires lot's of testing. From that point of view $50 is actually meaningless. Yeah ... he can say that Facebook is charging him for fake clicks ... that's an old news :)

Silhouette 13y ago
You're saying that if Facebook is fraudulently charging advertising customers for more than they are really supplying, that's OK and we should all just deal with it? Really? FWIW, the last few small scale Facebook campaigns we've run at one of my companies followed a broadly similar pattern to the one described in the article, and we too have checked against our various analytics tools and server logs for comparison, finding the quality of Facebook's referrals far lower than any other source. However, we do have some other plausible theories about why this might be the case. For example, if visitors to our (B2C, leisure-related) site first see the ad on mobile while they're at work, they're unlikely to explore significantly at the time, but might come back later. We do tend to see a significant spike in both direct visitors and visitors via search engines while we're running FB campaigns that would be compatible with that theory. Even so, it's very awkward to audit what is really going on with Facebook ads. This is partly because it's hard to determine which clicks claimed by Facebook are actually coming through to our landing page and which are either phantom clicks or other events like Facebook "Likes" that aren't worth anything unless they ultimately translate into paying visitors. It's also hard to track how much money is ultimately charged, because the charges they actually make where they collect real money and the corresponding notifications they send out seem to be based on arbitrary billing periods that don't necessarily correspond to specific days/campaigns where you originally set your budget. At this point, given the number of reports of strange patterns that do correspond to our own experience, we are sceptical both about how many clicks we get through FB are deliberate rather than "accidental" and about how FB accounts for clicks and calculates its charges. As a small business in a niche market, our FB campaigns only have a small budget and usually they at least break even almost immediately, so we tolerate the uncertainties because our bottom line is usually positive anyway. Even so, the lack of transparency and amount of potential funny business we see at FB is disconcerting, and it certainly makes us hesitant to commit serious money to any FB campaigns in the future.
- DivByZero 13y ago
  Of course I'm not saying that it's extremely frustrating both to have click fraud and having little data from Facebook to better understand what's going on. I totally agree with that. However: 1) I don't think Facebook would be so stupid to intentionally fraud on clicks ... the damage could be much bigger than the gain. I'm pretty sure this is mainly due to click farm, bots and so on. 2) I don't care about the click fraud. I don't advertise to get clicks. I advertise to get customers. As long as the overall CPA I get from Facebook is lower than AdWords I'll keep advertising on Facebook.

r12e 13y ago

Strongly agree. I was expecting another low-quality Facebook-bashing article but was pleasantly surprised with how thoroughly the author tracked the visits (FB reports > server logs > Analytics). The whole mis-clicking on mobile rings true for me, particularly. I'm forever accidentally 'liking' posts when just trying to view the comments. I've run a few campaigns and always managed to break even. I believe the key to success is very selective, and often slightly obscure, targeting.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

stonemetal 13y ago

What is the driver of false clicks on FB? So far as I know it isn't like Google where a third party will be paid something for the click. Isn't FB the only one getting paid when I click a FB ad?

lutusp 13y ago
> What is the driver of false clicks on FB? Facebook's reputation as en effective advertiser is improved. As Deep Throat said during the Watergate scandal, "Follow the money."
- DivByZero 13y ago
  How fake clicks that don't generate business results would improve Facebook reputation as an effective advertiser ? Actually every time these posts comes out (once a week lately) Facebook reputation is hurt.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    > How fake clicks that don't generate business results would improve Facebook reputation as an effective advertiser ? In online advertising, there's a pretty big chasm between when people think is going on, and reality. Facebook has every incentive to increase their apparent standing in the online advertising business, and the fact that some of the traffic is bogus may not matter to anyone but a purist (or a client). Consider that everyone in the business has some bogus traffic. Maybe the players feel they can compare statistics without bothering to find out how much is nonsense masquerading as business. > Actually every time these posts comes out (once a week lately) Facebook reputation is hurt. Yes, that's true, but a corporate strategy might be to simply say, "We're working on this problem", and hope no one pays too much attention to the actual level of effort.
- yogKarma 13y ago
  I didn't get that. Elaborate?
  - 13y ago