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> He started on Lexapro, and ended up committing suicide a week later. I had to sit there and read testimonials of people that lost friends and family attribute

> He started on Lexapro, and ended up committing suicide a week later. I had to sit there and read testimonials of people that lost friends and family attributed to taking lexapro. I don't want to belittle you're experience, because losing a friend to suicide is always brutal, but I do feel that its important to look at reports of anti-depressants causing suicide with a critical eye. Almost all ant-depressants carry a warning that they can cause suicide, but there are a couple of factors in that: 1. Almost by definition, people who are prescribed anti-depressants are more likely to commit suicide in the first place. 2. I can't find the source on this one, but I've certainly been told by psychiatrists that the first few weeks after going on anti-depressants carries a higher risk of suicide than before going on them. The theory is that during those first few weeks you've been given enough of a kick by the drugs to provide a bit of motivation, but you've not yet had the chance to address the actual cause of the problem. That combination can result in having just enough motivation to carry out your desire to kill yourself. Unfortunately you'll often see doctors prescribing medication without then following it up with the necessary therapy to help their patient move on from whatever got them into the situation got them to this point to begin with.

rickdale 13y ago
Nah, I don't think your comment belittles my experience at all. You bring up all the points that people were talking about around the time of the tragedy (last October). The point of my comment was to show there are windows open when doors seems closed, if you know what I mean, rather than sensationalizing what happened to some random guy x I that I know. Good points!
drzaiusapelord 13y ago
>That combination can result in having just enough motivation to carry out your desire to kill yourself. Have we ever had a testimonial from a failed suicide in these circumstances? In my case, as my depression and anxiety issues started going away, I suddenly realized how much of a complete weirdo others must see me as and felt shame comparing myself to others in my peer group who, without depression holding them back, have become much more successful. It was a brutal eye-opener for me. I guess when I was depressed I really didn't consider these things or they simply didn't bother me. It really brought up a feeling of hopelessness, like I wasted my youth and thus will never catch up, or will always been seen as defective in some way. I guess it doesn't bother me much anymore, but given sudden clarity like that can be intimidating. I imagine if someone is already suicidal, it can be a tipping point.
- morganw 13y ago
  > I suddenly realized how much of a complete weirdo others must see me as and felt shame comparing myself to others in my peer group who, without depression holding them back, have become much more successful. ... It really brought up a feeling of hopelessness, like I wasted my youth and thus will never catch up, or will always been seen as defective in some way. Preach it brother! I feel the same damned way. > I guess when I was depressed I really didn't consider these things or they simply didn't bother me. I revel in my weirdness when my mood is different from others-- they're just polyannas. Makes it harder to make that appt. to get the meds adjusted.
harvestmoon 13y ago
There is little doubt that antidepressants can cause new suicidal thoughts in children. In general use antidepressants can cause manic behavior and other psychological issues.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  This is a very tricky subject where language fails us a bit - what exactly is a 'suicidal thought,' or 'suicidal ideation' as clinicians put it? You can be depressed and think that you want to die, or that everyone else would be better off if you were dead, or that being dead would be preferable to stewing misery...but feel too apathetic to do anything about it. With or without drugs, you can be in a more active mode where you feel like doing something about your problems, but still feel miserable or be acutely conscious of the pit of misery that you just left, eg if you're bipolar and having a manic episode. So the drug or mood swing might correlate with the impetus to commit suicide, eg getting up and going somewhere to do so or making use of tools to that end. But is the 'suicidal thought' the desire to stop living, or the practical action upon that desire? As someone with some first-hand experience in this area, focusing on the latter seems like blaming the period for the ending of a sentence, while avoiding engagement with the semantic content thereof. I'm not saying that drugs or other factors can't induce the idea by any means, but most discussions of this issue seem to involve a heft does of post hoc ergo propter hoc, ie the correlation = causation fallacy.
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Suicidal ideation covers active thoughts ("this is the method I will use; this is my plan; here is a note") and passive thoughts ("I wish I wasn't here anymore"; "they'd be better off without me" etc). Depression covers a broad range of behaviours and severities. But to say "anti depressants can cause odd thinking in some people during the first few weeks of use, and people starting anti depressants should be closely monitored" is not controversial. You mention bipolar - it is important to be very careful with SSRIs and people with (possibly undiagnosed) bipolar. http://www.mhra.gov.uk/ConferencesLearningCentre/LearningCentre/Medicineslearningmodules/Reducingmedicinerisk/SSRIlearningmodule/CON146583?useSecondary=&showpage=13 http://www.mhra.gov.uk/ConferencesLearningCentre/LearningCen...

rickdale 13y ago

Nah, I don't think your comment belittles my experience at all. You bring up all the points that people were talking about around the time of the tragedy (last October). The point of my comment was to show there are windows open when doors seems closed, if you know what I mean, rather than sensationalizing what happened to some random guy x I that I know. Good points!

drzaiusapelord 13y ago

>That combination can result in having just enough motivation to carry out your desire to kill yourself. Have we ever had a testimonial from a failed suicide in these circumstances? In my case, as my depression and anxiety issues started going away, I suddenly realized how much of a complete weirdo others must see me as and felt shame comparing myself to others in my peer group who, without depression holding them back, have become much more successful. It was a brutal eye-opener for me. I guess when I was depressed I really didn't consider these things or they simply didn't bother me. It really brought up a feeling of hopelessness, like I wasted my youth and thus will never catch up, or will always been seen as defective in some way. I guess it doesn't bother me much anymore, but given sudden clarity like that can be intimidating. I imagine if someone is already suicidal, it can be a tipping point.

morganw 13y ago
> I suddenly realized how much of a complete weirdo others must see me as and felt shame comparing myself to others in my peer group who, without depression holding them back, have become much more successful. ... It really brought up a feeling of hopelessness, like I wasted my youth and thus will never catch up, or will always been seen as defective in some way. Preach it brother! I feel the same damned way. > I guess when I was depressed I really didn't consider these things or they simply didn't bother me. I revel in my weirdness when my mood is different from others-- they're just polyannas. Makes it harder to make that appt. to get the meds adjusted.

harvestmoon 13y ago

There is little doubt that antidepressants can cause new suicidal thoughts in children. In general use antidepressants can cause manic behavior and other psychological issues.

anigbrowl 13y ago
This is a very tricky subject where language fails us a bit - what exactly is a 'suicidal thought,' or 'suicidal ideation' as clinicians put it? You can be depressed and think that you want to die, or that everyone else would be better off if you were dead, or that being dead would be preferable to stewing misery...but feel too apathetic to do anything about it. With or without drugs, you can be in a more active mode where you feel like doing something about your problems, but still feel miserable or be acutely conscious of the pit of misery that you just left, eg if you're bipolar and having a manic episode. So the drug or mood swing might correlate with the impetus to commit suicide, eg getting up and going somewhere to do so or making use of tools to that end. But is the 'suicidal thought' the desire to stop living, or the practical action upon that desire? As someone with some first-hand experience in this area, focusing on the latter seems like blaming the period for the ending of a sentence, while avoiding engagement with the semantic content thereof. I'm not saying that drugs or other factors can't induce the idea by any means, but most discussions of this issue seem to involve a heft does of post hoc ergo propter hoc, ie the correlation = causation fallacy.
- DanBC 13y ago
  Suicidal ideation covers active thoughts ("this is the method I will use; this is my plan; here is a note") and passive thoughts ("I wish I wasn't here anymore"; "they'd be better off without me" etc). Depression covers a broad range of behaviours and severities. But to say "anti depressants can cause odd thinking in some people during the first few weeks of use, and people starting anti depressants should be closely monitored" is not controversial. You mention bipolar - it is important to be very careful with SSRIs and people with (possibly undiagnosed) bipolar. http://www.mhra.gov.uk/ConferencesLearningCentre/LearningCentre/Medicineslearningmodules/Reducingmedicinerisk/SSRIlearningmodule/CON146583?useSecondary=&showpage=13 http://www.mhra.gov.uk/ConferencesLearningCentre/LearningCen...