4 ms·
For goodness sake, when are people going to understand that freedom of expression doesn't (and shouldn't) mean freedom from criticism. This is not a difficult c
by anon1385 13y ago
For goodness sake, when are people going to understand that freedom of expression doesn't (and shouldn't) mean freedom from criticism. This is not a difficult concept people.
- mschuster91 13y agoWhat happened with Eich was not criticism any more, rather a full blown witch hunt, complete with forks and fire. The internet has become too much of 4chan the last few years.
- kolektiv 13y agoI haven't been paying overly close attention, but all of the reaction I have seen has generally been blog/twitter based expressions of sadness/disappointment/betrayal. Has it really escalated far beyond that? (Genuine question).
- sehr 13y agoThere were supposedly death threats, but I haven't seen any. In general though, and from an anecdotal perspective, various internet communities do seem to be more and more involved in 'causes' of various sorts. Whether or not those causes lead to escalation seems to depend on the subject matter and participants, just like anything else really.
- ZeroGravitas 13y agoWe should probably start a list of thing that don't lead to death threats online, it'll be shorter. The most recent example was someone suggesting putting a famous woman's face on the next UK pound note and getting such threats.
- mschuster91 13y agoOKCupid blocked all Firefox users with a warning message saying that their users should not use a browser whose development CEO dislikes gay marriage. Borders to extortion or unfair competition, in my eyes.
- oneeyedpigeon 13y agoThey didn't block them; they showed them a message, invited them to use an alternative browser, and allowed them to continue if they so wished.
- SandB0x 13y agoPresumably that part was written in JavaScript.
- maneesh 13y agoThey also continued to use JavaScript on their site, regardless of browser. Since Eich invented JavaScript, shouldn't they stop using it?
- oneeyedpigeon 13y ago(I'm slightly wary of this ridiculous argument, but here goes...) Eich wasn't the CEO of 'JavaScript', so that's not really the same thing, is it?
- toyg 13y agoThat's more of an accident of history, really. In his own words, Netscape told him to come up with something, anything, quick, and lo JavaScript was born. Had Netscape known that he was a closet homophobe, would they have hired him in the first place? It's also much easier being an homophobe engineer rather than a homophobe CEO, because of the nature of the role. His technical achievements can be as impressive as you want and have no relation to his homophobia; being CEO is a role built on public relationships inside and outside the company, relationships that would be severely influenced by his (perceived) homophobia.
- ZanyProgrammer 13y agoThis is literally how the free market and competition work.
- anon1385 13y agoI've seen a few people say they won't be using Mozilla products any longer, which is up to them of course. I doubt it is any significant number of people. The only thing I've seen that 'crossed the line' so to speak was the okcpuid thing urging users to stop using Firefox. I didn't see exactly what the message was. It sounded more like a marketing stunt to get some media attention. I think if it had been other people/companies targeted then people on HN would have been applauding their disruptive and entrepreneurial marketing department.
- rsynnott 13y agoI don't see that that crosses any line, as such. It used to be very common for websites to tell people not to use Internet Explorer, sometimes on a purely technical basis, but often on a "Microsoft is evil" basis. This seems similar to the latter.
- mschuster91 13y agoFlaming a company is a vastly different from death threats and hate mobs against a person.
- rsynnott 13y agoI was responding to a comment about a website showing a message to Firefox users; the website made no death threats.
- beaker52 13y agoIt's called smear. It happens to people in high places whose pyramid of power is missing a keystone or two.
- pohl 13y agoSo that's what a "witch hunt" is these days, eh...people blog, comment on the blog, post the blog to social networks, comment on the social network posts, make claims about how they'll change their consuming habits in response to the post... There once was a day when "witch hunt" actually referred to strapping live human beings to kindling and setting them ablaze.
- rmc 13y agoA witch hunt? Is he dead? Has he been beaten to death like man LGBT people?
- DerKommissar 13y agoSeems to me they found a witch. Or is bigotry just a myth?
- Wintamute 13y agoThe people who felt criticised by Eich's expression of criticism and then felt compelled to drive him out of his job would do well to remember that too, don't you think?
- anon1385 13y agoI don't see your point. I don't see anybody in here (yet) saying that the article we are discussing (or any other article defending Eich) shouldn't have been written or published - merely some people disagreeing with it. I have seen plenty of people over the last week or however long it has been saying criticism of Eich should not have been written or published because to criticise somebody for their views is being 'intolerant'.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago"I don't see your point." ~ anon1385 Naturally. What if people decided they're not cool with people who engage in witch hunts having jobs anymore? Doesn't matter because it won't happen? That's not morality though.
- anon1385 13y agoNobody that I have seen said Eich shouldn't have any job anymore. Just that he wasn't a good choice for this particular leadership role. I'm not privy to what happened within Mozilla, but it does sound like it was internal disagreements (i.e. Mozilla employees begin unhappy with the appointment) that lead to him leaving the post, more than bloggers or HN commenters. That is just the nature of taking a leadership role. If you can't take the staff with you then your position isn't tenable.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago> Just that he wasn't a good choice for this particular leadership role. Since his role had exactly zero to do with his personal views, you could say this about any future job as well.
- marrs 13y agoHe wasn't criticised for his views, he was fired
- higherpurpose 13y agoBy the same token, the people who forced him to resign shouldn't be free of criticism. Right?