5 ms·

can someone explain this to me? i thought f# was open source for years? isn't that how most people compile it on their machines? is it just that people don't k

can someone explain this to me? i thought f# was open source for years? isn't that how most people compile it on their machines? is it just that people don't know that half the things that were open sourced have already been open sourced(like the asp.net stuff) or do we just copy and paste microsoft press releases here? OR am i missing something crucial that someone can elaborate on please? https://github.com/fsharp/fsharp/ https://github.com/fsharp/fsharp/ EDIT2: thanks to the responses, it's about accepting contributions EDIT: for those that don't know the asp.net developments had a lot of influence from the alt.net movements. it was ms' attempt to keep the c# web developers from moving to other frameworks that let you do similar things much easier.

bad_user 13y ago
F# has been licensed under an open-source license for some time, but in Microsoft fashion, they weren't accepting contributions from third-parties, so the repository was read-only.
- darklajid 13y ago
  "but in Microsoft fashion" ... Show me where I can directly contribute to random Apple products or where I'd send my upstream Android improvements. Worse, the Linux kernel is open source, but getting my own changes into the main distribution is probably taking some work and the chance that they won't be accepted is rather good. No offense, but I'm really unhappy about the continued MS bashing. Yes, right now (due to the BUILD conference) there are a good number of Microsoft related posts on this site. Yes, Microsoft wasn't the corporate citizen most of us wanted them to be in the past. But these news are _nice_ and the slights are really misplaced.
  - wcarss 13y ago
    It would be difficult to submit a patch to the Linux kernel, yes. Especially as an outsider with no history with the project. But people do submit them. Because that is how open source projects operate. As for apple: bugzilla.webkit.org and llvm.org/bugs - you have to invest real time in these before you can submit patches, but they take take them. 'In Microsoft Fashion' here may be more mean than it needs to be, but I do not think it refers to a general greed or selfishness or what-have-you. It sounds to me like it refers specifically to the sort of open source that major Microsoft products had previously been released under, and that was it. Any hating ascribed to the statement is interpretation. I agree about Android. I wish it were actually open source -- maybe someday. :)
    - darklajid 13y ago
      Even for Microsoft open-source (as in 'anyone can send patches and might get them accepted') is nothing new. From [1], posted March 27, 2012 (and note the author!): You can also now contribute directly to the development of the products by reviewing and sending feedback on code checkins, submitting bugs and helping us verify fixes as they are checked in, suggesting and giving feedback on new features as they are implemented, as well as by submitting code fixes or code contributions of your own. Note that all code submissions will be rigorously reviewed and tested by the ASP.NET MVC Team, and only those that meet an extremely high bar for both quality and design/roadmap appropriateness will be merged into the source. -- Sounds like .. any high profile open source project: Feel free to contribute, be aware that we might reject your work. So two years later, after opening more projects to this model, I don't think 'the sort of open source that major Microsoft products had .. been released under' is correct. (Obviously there's a fair bit of interpretation going on. As it always is in text, unless you're fairly close to the author perhaps) 1: http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2012/03/27/asp-net-mvc-web-api-razor-and-open-source.aspx http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2012/03/27/asp-net-mv...
  - fpgeek 13y ago
    If you want to submit an Android patch: http://source.android.com/source/submit-patches.html http://source.android.com/source/submit-patches.html The problem with Android was never that they didn't have a contribution process. IIRC, they've had that since day 1 (or maybe even before with the pre-device SDK). The problem is that the success rate for patch submissions is abysmal because Google evaluates patches in the context of the unreleased, unpublished version of Android they're working on internally rather than against the most recent published released that they are typically against.
mands 13y ago
Yes, you are right, F# has been open-source and on github for a while, and that itself isn't new news. However I don't believe users could make contributions that would be upstreamed into the official releases or VS builds. Quoting from the associated blogpost - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fsharpteam/archive/2014/04/03/facilitating-open-contributions-for-the-f-compiler-library-and-visual-f-tools.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fsharpteam/archive/2014/04/03/facili... "Prior to today, contributions were not accepted to the core implementation of the F# language. From today, we are enabling the community to contribute to the F# language, library and tools, and to the Visual F# Tools themselves, while maintaining the integrity and unity of the F# language itself."
CmonDev 13y ago
I think they can theoretically accept a proposed language design change now. Of course it will probably never happen in practice, but it's a nice thing to say on the project page.
- profquail 13y ago
  I think there's a very good chance they'll accept incremental, high-quality changes to the language. For example, I've proposed some small features to provide better interop with C#; they should fit nicely into the language without requiring major changes. On the other hand, major (re-)design proposals to include features that only really matter to very advanced functional programmers don't have a good chance of being accepted.

bad_user 13y ago

F# has been licensed under an open-source license for some time, but in Microsoft fashion, they weren't accepting contributions from third-parties, so the repository was read-only.

darklajid 13y ago
"but in Microsoft fashion" ... Show me where I can directly contribute to random Apple products or where I'd send my upstream Android improvements. Worse, the Linux kernel is open source, but getting my own changes into the main distribution is probably taking some work and the chance that they won't be accepted is rather good. No offense, but I'm really unhappy about the continued MS bashing. Yes, right now (due to the BUILD conference) there are a good number of Microsoft related posts on this site. Yes, Microsoft wasn't the corporate citizen most of us wanted them to be in the past. But these news are _nice_ and the slights are really misplaced.
- wcarss 13y ago
  It would be difficult to submit a patch to the Linux kernel, yes. Especially as an outsider with no history with the project. But people do submit them. Because that is how open source projects operate. As for apple: bugzilla.webkit.org and llvm.org/bugs - you have to invest real time in these before you can submit patches, but they take take them. 'In Microsoft Fashion' here may be more mean than it needs to be, but I do not think it refers to a general greed or selfishness or what-have-you. It sounds to me like it refers specifically to the sort of open source that major Microsoft products had previously been released under, and that was it. Any hating ascribed to the statement is interpretation. I agree about Android. I wish it were actually open source -- maybe someday. :)
  - darklajid 13y ago
    Even for Microsoft open-source (as in 'anyone can send patches and might get them accepted') is nothing new. From [1], posted March 27, 2012 (and note the author!): You can also now contribute directly to the development of the products by reviewing and sending feedback on code checkins, submitting bugs and helping us verify fixes as they are checked in, suggesting and giving feedback on new features as they are implemented, as well as by submitting code fixes or code contributions of your own. Note that all code submissions will be rigorously reviewed and tested by the ASP.NET MVC Team, and only those that meet an extremely high bar for both quality and design/roadmap appropriateness will be merged into the source. -- Sounds like .. any high profile open source project: Feel free to contribute, be aware that we might reject your work. So two years later, after opening more projects to this model, I don't think 'the sort of open source that major Microsoft products had .. been released under' is correct. (Obviously there's a fair bit of interpretation going on. As it always is in text, unless you're fairly close to the author perhaps) 1: http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2012/03/27/asp-net-mvc-web-api-razor-and-open-source.aspx http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2012/03/27/asp-net-mv...
- fpgeek 13y ago
  If you want to submit an Android patch: http://source.android.com/source/submit-patches.html http://source.android.com/source/submit-patches.html The problem with Android was never that they didn't have a contribution process. IIRC, they've had that since day 1 (or maybe even before with the pre-device SDK). The problem is that the success rate for patch submissions is abysmal because Google evaluates patches in the context of the unreleased, unpublished version of Android they're working on internally rather than against the most recent published released that they are typically against.

mands 13y ago

Yes, you are right, F# has been open-source and on github for a while, and that itself isn't new news. However I don't believe users could make contributions that would be upstreamed into the official releases or VS builds. Quoting from the associated blogpost - http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fsharpteam/archive/2014/04/03/facilitating-open-contributions-for-the-f-compiler-library-and-visual-f-tools.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/fsharpteam/archive/2014/04/03/facili... "Prior to today, contributions were not accepted to the core implementation of the F# language. From today, we are enabling the community to contribute to the F# language, library and tools, and to the Visual F# Tools themselves, while maintaining the integrity and unity of the F# language itself."

CmonDev 13y ago

I think they can theoretically accept a proposed language design change now. Of course it will probably never happen in practice, but it's a nice thing to say on the project page.

profquail 13y ago
I think there's a very good chance they'll accept incremental, high-quality changes to the language. For example, I've proposed some small features to provide better interop with C#; they should fit nicely into the language without requiring major changes. On the other hand, major (re-)design proposals to include features that only really matter to very advanced functional programmers don't have a good chance of being accepted.