4 ms·

did we speak with other non sapiens sapiens species co-existing with us for a long period of our evolution? did we feel they were lacking something?

by ithkuil 13y ago

pjc50 13y ago
It's basically a pet, surely? Automating child supervision will be the next great liberation of human labour from drudgery, if we manage to make a society where people can afford it. At the moment the cost of childcare (whether transactional or domestic) is limited by the number of children one adult can effectively look after; around four, or fewer if they have special needs. Traditionally one solution has been to make the older kids look after the young ones, but nobody accepts this when childcare is contracted out. Unfortunately the downside is accustoming children to automated surveillance and potentially automated child discipline.
- yesbabyyes 13y ago
  Automating child supervision will be the next great liberation of human labour from drudgery[.] Brave new world, indeed - here's hoping your kids will never read this! Unfortunately the downside is accustoming children to automated surveillance and potentially automated child discipline. Really now?
- aethr 13y ago
  Infants and children need physical touch and emotional support in early life. Skin-to-skin contact plays a big role in early infant emotional engagement, and also reduces the likelihood and severity of post-birth depression in the mother. [1] Not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek, but surely raising children is the one thing that we should really always make time to do ourselves. Otherwise why are you having kids at all? [1] http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/infant-touch/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/infant-touch/
  - pjc50 13y ago
    It's a little provocative, but for a lot of people costof childcare is a big issue: http://www.theguardian.com/money/she-said/2014/mar/31/three-small-words-could-end-financial-distress-and-confusion-for-parents-free-universal-childcare http://www.theguardian.com/money/she-said/2014/mar/31/three-... ; and the cost of childcare is almost entirely (labour cost) / (number of children cared for). There are also phases of childhood; yes, infants need to be kept close, necessitating paid parental leave for the first year or so, but as they gradually get more autonomous you can let them play on their own or in small groups, at which point the "AI baby monitor" starts to seem more reasonable. Continuous lifesign monitoring of infants would also be useful; computers, unlike adults, don't have to sleep. Maybe we could prevent or at least reduce/understand SIDS?
    - aethr 13y ago
      All good points, especially re: SIDS. For myself, childcare is more than a place to drop my son while I'm working. It's important to me that he is learning, socialising, and experiencing different perspectives from other adults. I'm happy that he gets cuddles and hugs from his teachers when he's upset, or just as part of a game. Although physical contact is certainly most important during early development, my point was a bit broader. Simply that, as humans, there is a meaningful biological utility to physical touch with other humans. It's simply most obvious in infants, but that doesn't mean we "grow out of it". I do understand the financial constraints that childcare brings, but I don't like the look of a future where kids are spending more time with robot nannies and surveillance cameras than they are with their families. Personally, I hope advances in technology mean I have to work less so I can spend more time with my kids!
- smackay 13y ago
  I think television and now tablets have largely achieved this, sadly. However I think you have is precisely backwards. Liberation from the drudgery of parenting for what? more work? I think a more productive goal would be to liberate parents from work so they and their children can spend more time with other parents and children building a better world for all.
- Karellen 13y ago
  If you think supervising - i.e. raising - a child is drudgery people ought to be liberated from, I sincerely hope that you aren't a parent, and have no plans to become one in the near future. Being around your child, supervising them, talking to them, teaching them about the world around them (answering the "what's that?"s and "why?"s), and how to interact with others ("No! we don't just grab at things.") is a fundamental part of being a human parent. Heck, it's a fundamental part of being a mammalian parent. It's why people have kids. We need to free parents from all the other crap so they can spend time with their kids, not free them from their kids so they spend time on the other crap.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    I appreciate that feminism is not going to get a good reception on HN, and I don't have my references to hand, so I'll stick to the easily googlable: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/07/parenting-makes-people-miserable-what-else-is-new/59283/ http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/07/par... http://philosophynow.org/issues/24/Can_a_Life_of_Child-rearing_Be_Meaningful http://philosophynow.org/issues/24/Can_a_Life_of_Child-reari...
    - Karellen 13y ago
      What? I'm talking about parents, not mothers. Freeing fathers up from the drudgery of other crap to help raise their kids is just as important, partly so that the responsibilities can be better shared and mothers can have some time to themselves. Advancing the notion of freeing fathers to help raise their kids might be more important in some ways, as we have a farther road to travel there. Automating the need to work should be the goal. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that parenting might be "fun" or "easy". That it certainly isn't - at least not all the time. It's rewarding, but in the way that really hard work is.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Surely it would be more desirable to allow people to easily automate their work drudgery so as to spend more time having fun with their kids. Most people use childcare services to accommodate their jobs, as opposed to hiring a babysitter for the occasional parents evening out at the movies/ dancing/ dinner. I don't think there are many people of means who drop their kids off at childcare 5 days a week and spend all the time engaged in leisure activities. Some, sure, but not that many.

did we speak with other non sapiens sapiens species co-existing with us for a long period of our evolution? did we feel they were lacking something?

by ithkuil 13y ago

did we speak with other non sapiens sapiens species co-existing with us for a long period of our evolution? did we feel they were lacking something?

pjc50 13y ago

It's basically a pet, surely? Automating child supervision will be the next great liberation of human labour from drudgery, if we manage to make a society where people can afford it. At the moment the cost of childcare (whether transactional or domestic) is limited by the number of children one adult can effectively look after; around four, or fewer if they have special needs. Traditionally one solution has been to make the older kids look after the young ones, but nobody accepts this when childcare is contracted out. Unfortunately the downside is accustoming children to automated surveillance and potentially automated child discipline.

yesbabyyes 13y ago
Automating child supervision will be the next great liberation of human labour from drudgery[.] Brave new world, indeed - here's hoping your kids will never read this! Unfortunately the downside is accustoming children to automated surveillance and potentially automated child discipline. Really now?
aethr 13y ago
Infants and children need physical touch and emotional support in early life. Skin-to-skin contact plays a big role in early infant emotional engagement, and also reduces the likelihood and severity of post-birth depression in the mother. [1] Not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek, but surely raising children is the one thing that we should really always make time to do ourselves. Otherwise why are you having kids at all? [1] http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/infant-touch/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/infant-touch/
- pjc50 13y ago
  It's a little provocative, but for a lot of people costof childcare is a big issue: http://www.theguardian.com/money/she-said/2014/mar/31/three-small-words-could-end-financial-distress-and-confusion-for-parents-free-universal-childcare http://www.theguardian.com/money/she-said/2014/mar/31/three-... ; and the cost of childcare is almost entirely (labour cost) / (number of children cared for). There are also phases of childhood; yes, infants need to be kept close, necessitating paid parental leave for the first year or so, but as they gradually get more autonomous you can let them play on their own or in small groups, at which point the "AI baby monitor" starts to seem more reasonable. Continuous lifesign monitoring of infants would also be useful; computers, unlike adults, don't have to sleep. Maybe we could prevent or at least reduce/understand SIDS?
  - aethr 13y ago
    All good points, especially re: SIDS. For myself, childcare is more than a place to drop my son while I'm working. It's important to me that he is learning, socialising, and experiencing different perspectives from other adults. I'm happy that he gets cuddles and hugs from his teachers when he's upset, or just as part of a game. Although physical contact is certainly most important during early development, my point was a bit broader. Simply that, as humans, there is a meaningful biological utility to physical touch with other humans. It's simply most obvious in infants, but that doesn't mean we "grow out of it". I do understand the financial constraints that childcare brings, but I don't like the look of a future where kids are spending more time with robot nannies and surveillance cameras than they are with their families. Personally, I hope advances in technology mean I have to work less so I can spend more time with my kids!
smackay 13y ago
I think television and now tablets have largely achieved this, sadly. However I think you have is precisely backwards. Liberation from the drudgery of parenting for what? more work? I think a more productive goal would be to liberate parents from work so they and their children can spend more time with other parents and children building a better world for all.
Karellen 13y ago
If you think supervising - i.e. raising - a child is drudgery people ought to be liberated from, I sincerely hope that you aren't a parent, and have no plans to become one in the near future. Being around your child, supervising them, talking to them, teaching them about the world around them (answering the "what's that?"s and "why?"s), and how to interact with others ("No! we don't just grab at things.") is a fundamental part of being a human parent. Heck, it's a fundamental part of being a mammalian parent. It's why people have kids. We need to free parents from all the other crap so they can spend time with their kids, not free them from their kids so they spend time on the other crap.
- pjc50 13y ago
  I appreciate that feminism is not going to get a good reception on HN, and I don't have my references to hand, so I'll stick to the easily googlable: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/07/parenting-makes-people-miserable-what-else-is-new/59283/ http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/07/par... http://philosophynow.org/issues/24/Can_a_Life_of_Child-rearing_Be_Meaningful http://philosophynow.org/issues/24/Can_a_Life_of_Child-reari...
  - Karellen 13y ago
    What? I'm talking about parents, not mothers. Freeing fathers up from the drudgery of other crap to help raise their kids is just as important, partly so that the responsibilities can be better shared and mothers can have some time to themselves. Advancing the notion of freeing fathers to help raise their kids might be more important in some ways, as we have a farther road to travel there. Automating the need to work should be the goal. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that parenting might be "fun" or "easy". That it certainly isn't - at least not all the time. It's rewarding, but in the way that really hard work is.
anigbrowl 13y ago
Surely it would be more desirable to allow people to easily automate their work drudgery so as to spend more time having fun with their kids. Most people use childcare services to accommodate their jobs, as opposed to hiring a babysitter for the occasional parents evening out at the movies/ dancing/ dinner. I don't think there are many people of means who drop their kids off at childcare 5 days a week and spend all the time engaged in leisure activities. Some, sure, but not that many.