6 ms·

Mozilla boss Brendan Eich resigns after gay marriage storm

45 points by pierre-renaux 13y ago

imsogay 13y ago
The point of marriage is a to enter into a contract with a clear definition of privileges and duties. Wife agrees to provide husband with exclusive access to poon, husband promises to devote all resources to their joint offspring. Gays have nothing to do with this. They just put their penis into any little hole that comes their way. They want marriage becomes of major inferiority complexes. For that reason alone we should institutionalize them.
cessor 13y ago
People change. I believe that he could be a good person in a role for Mozilla, despite being against gay marriage. The fact that he steps back from this important role both shows that either Mozilla or Brendan himself are sensitive to the topic. I would like to believe that Brendan has changed (some people tend to do that over the years) and resings as a sign of admitting that he was wrong about the gay marriage thing. This makes the whole situation kind of paradox - him stepping back indicates a kind of sensitivity that I would like in a leader for an organisation like this.
- hellbanTHIS 13y ago
  I'm getting the feeling he really did voluntarily step down to save the company. But if he wanted to fight it he might have a good case, as per California Labor Code - Section 1101: >No employer shall make, adopt, or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy: >(a) Forbidding or preventing employees from engaging or participating in politics or from becoming candidates for public office. >(b) Controlling or directing, or tending to control or direct the political activities or affiliations of employees. >- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/LAB/1/d2/3/5/s1101#sthash.uT6Lmptj.dpuf http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/LAB/1/d2/3/5/s1101#sthash... The other paradox is that this might do more damage to Mozilla than if he stayed, the reaction is pretty split but a lot of people see this as an act of cowardice on Mozilla's part. I'm personally finding it hard to respect how they handled it.
  - stcredzero 13y ago
    But what the precedent of this event does, is drag our society one step deeper into the idea that groups pressuring companies to do (b) is "just how things are" in the US.
    - hellbanTHIS 13y ago
      It's even worse than that, this isn't like Bill Maher getting fired from ABC for something he said on the air during a time of hysteria. This was something Eich did in private six years ago which he may or may not regret, depending on how you interpret his blog post. The precedent this sets is truly awful.
    - cessor 13y ago
      That is true, it all leaves a certain aftertaste. I am not sure what to make of all this. A German saying goes like this: "The wiser mind gives in". But sometimes, that might leave an area ruled by idiots. So yeah, we (a hypothetical "us") won for accepting gay marriage but became bullies in the process.
betterunix 13y ago
This is just sad. Gay marriage has literally nothing to do with Mozilla's work or mission, and there has not been any evidence that Eich was using his position at Mozilla to advance some kind of anti-gay agenda. This is basically the definition of thoughtcrime -- Eich did nothing wrong other than to have an opinion and donate a bit of his own money to a cause he supports. It was not all that long ago that taking a pro-gay-rights position might have led to this kind of retaliation. If you are one of the people who rallied against Mozilla, just remember that political winds can shift and that in a few decades you might be the one receiving this treatment.
- benched 13y ago
  Today, I learned just how trivial people believe gay rights are. I'm actually surprised by it. That's much sadder to me.
  - fennecfoxen 13y ago
    Today I learned that some people believe gay rights are so important that they think anyone who disagrees with the preferred, tendentious public-policy perspective on gay rights IS A MONSTER incapable of treating people like human beings and destructive to an organization. Also, pluralism is dead.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      ... as if yelling back at him was going to make the thread any better. Only the flag button on the story can save us now.
      - stcredzero 13y ago
        Flag button? Make it a flag pin!
  - freyrs3 13y ago
    Most people are probably very much in favor of marriage equality, they just draw a different line than you about the role that personal opinions should play in an pluralistic workplace. Let's not conflate the two views here, there's been enough discussion around this to recognize that there are at least nuanced arguments on both sides that defy this binary classification.
foolinaround 13y ago
from his earlier interview, it definitely seems like he was forced out, and resigning was just to save face. Values and ideas may change, but seems like the witch-hunt will be around to stay... Will he continue to be CTO at Mozilla?
- mcantelon 13y ago
  According to his blog it sounds like he's gone from Mozilla but will still be informally involved.
- kylec 13y ago
  No, he's leaving Mozilla https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-mission/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-mission/
adrusi 13y ago
On the one hand I'm happy, because it will end the political controversy that has resulted in a blow against Mozilla, but on the other, I feel kind of bad. I mean sure, the guy is a massive prick for donating to support Prop 8, but that honestly is no where near as relevant to his position as CEO of a nonprofit software company as it was made to be. The guy has contributed a lot to his field, and based on my impressions, has been very valuable to Mozilla as an employee in the past. I fully believe that he would have been capable of moving Mozilla in the right direction had it not been for this scandal. With his resignation, Mozilla could end up with a CEO who hinders them instead.
- ps4fanboy 13y ago
  Why does being against gay marriage make you a "massive prick". If people for gay marriage wasnt a minority it would be legal already, are you saying that the majority of the population are massive pricks, and should be ostracized from their jobs? EDIT: here comes the leftist downvote brigade, the sad thing is I support gay marriage, you people should really grow a backbone.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - adrusi 13y ago
    There is a difference between not supporting gay marriage, and choosing to spend $1000 to actively support its prohibition with no personal return besides an increased probability of not seeing same sex couples married in the future. I find it sad that the opponents of gay marriage make a majority in the US, and I am happy to live in a state where they do not.
    - ps4fanboy 13y ago
      "There is a difference between not supporting gay marriage, and choosing to spend $1000 to actively support its prohibition." Care to elaborate on what that difference is?
    - 13y ago
dmur 13y ago
Thread for the announcement has been buried for some reason, but it's here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7526619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7526619
ps4fanboy 13y ago
I believe in gay marriage but I also believe in peoples right to oppose it, this whole thing is shameful.
- batiudrami 13y ago
  I don't think that at any point Eich did not have the right to hold his opinion, just as people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with those who hold those views. Mozilla, and those (internal and external to Mozilla) who are calling for his resignation are not the government are not opressing him in any way. Whether or not this is the right call for Mozilla is up for debate, but whether his rights were infringed certainly is not.
  - ben336 13y ago
    "people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with those who hold those views" If his beliefs are religiously motivated, actually companies do not have the right to discriminate based on that. And imagine a modified version of that statement used to justify forcing out a gay CEO: "people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with people who believe in and act upon homosexual beliefs"
    - batiudrami 13y ago
      Fair agument, I did not think that through. Mozilla is, of course, required to comply with any and all anti-discriminiation laws which apply. However, would I be correct in saying that his rights are not being infringed by having people (both internal and external to Mozilla) call for his resignation because of his beliefs, and his contributions to causes which are actively damaging to some of those in the community? Especially in the case of Mozilla, who rely heavily on volunteers, the opinions of those connected but not necessarily employed by Mozilla should be important.
  - alextgordon 13y ago
    Clearly Eich did not have an actual right to hold his opinion, because he lost his job because of it!
ludicast 13y ago
I'd like to reiterate that Obama was against gay marriage during 2008 and California, the most liberal state ever, voted against it. A lot changes in 6 years(1). I'm a democrat in support of gay marriage because citizenship, benefits, and filing taxes jointly should be granted regardless of sexuality. But this witchhunt is ridiculous. However, a shitty language like js being necessary to deal with every day, that is unforgivable. 1 - The male-born transgender Fallon Fox is hailed as a gay hero for fighting again natural-born women. I don't agree with this (male bone structure, went through puberty as a male), and I definitely can't see this happening in 2008 for sure.
jonah 13y ago
Mob rule wins the day. Sigh.
vain 13y ago
If OKCupid are so against Brendan for his stance on gay marriage, they need to stop using javascript, for Brendan Eich invented javascript.
- nathancahill 13y ago
  Let's play a game called Name that Fallacy!
reuven 13y ago
I think that it's a shame that Eich had to resign. And I say this as someone who is very happy to see the winds changing in the US (and elsewhere), and who thinks that it's a good thing that gay marriage is becoming the norm and accepted law. Mozilla is a non-profit. It's normal and expected for a non-profit to have officers and directors who agree with the stance of the non-profit. I would expect the head of a vegetarian organization to be a vegetarian. I would expect the member of a religious organization to be an observant member of that religion. And I would expect that the head of a labor union patronize union shops more than non-union ones. So if Eich had taken a public stand against open-source software, or against Web standards, then it would be totally and utterly reasonable for him to resign, or to be forced out. But Eich didn't take a stand against things that are at the core of Mozilla's mission. Rather, he had a personal opinion -- one which I don't share -- that used to be mainstream, and is increasingly seen as out of the mainstream, at least in large portions of the US and many other liberal democracies. I think that it's unfair, and even a bit dangerous, for him to be forced out because of a personal political opinion. If the next head of Mozilla gets up and says that he thinks it's OK for women to have abortions, would it be reasonable for them to be forced out? After all, there are many millions of people who feel that abortion is murder. (I don't concur with this opinion, but I know that it exists.) If the next head of Mozilla donates money to anti-Obamacare ads, saying that things should go back to the way they were a few years ago, you could make a pretty good argument in favor of saying that this opinion will effectively condemn many people to death, or perhaps crippling poverty. I don't think that we want this to happen. We don't want CEOs to be ousted because they have political opinions which reflect a minority. I've often engaged in political discussions and debates with clients, some of whom hold opinions that I find completely and utterly wrong-headed, and perhaps even dangerous. But I'm not going to stop working with them because they hold different opinions. Rather, I'm going to be professional and work with them -- and perhaps even continue to debate them, so that they'll see my side of the argument. Eich believes that gay marriage is wrong. I believe that he's wrong about that, and history is increasingly against his opinion. But his opinion doesn't have to do with Mozilla's mission. By capitulating to public opinion over Eich's personal politics, Mozilla has opened Pandora's box. I worry that people who want to become the heads of major companies and organizations will keep their opinions and donations to themselves, for fear of eventually being condemned for those opinions. And that can only be bad for democracy and openness.
ielshareef 13y ago
Would there be such outrage over Eich's resignation had he donated to KKK or an anti-Semite group? Just curious.

45 points by pierre-renaux 13y ago

The point of marriage is a to enter into a contract with a clear definition of privileges and duties. Wife agrees to provide husband with exclusive access to poon, husband promises to devote all resources to their joint offspring. Gays have nothing to do with this. They just put their penis into any little hole that comes their way. They want marriage becomes of major inferiority complexes. For that reason alone we should institutionalize them.

cessor 13y ago

People change. I believe that he could be a good person in a role for Mozilla, despite being against gay marriage. The fact that he steps back from this important role both shows that either Mozilla or Brendan himself are sensitive to the topic. I would like to believe that Brendan has changed (some people tend to do that over the years) and resings as a sign of admitting that he was wrong about the gay marriage thing. This makes the whole situation kind of paradox - him stepping back indicates a kind of sensitivity that I would like in a leader for an organisation like this.

hellbanTHIS 13y ago
I'm getting the feeling he really did voluntarily step down to save the company. But if he wanted to fight it he might have a good case, as per California Labor Code - Section 1101: >No employer shall make, adopt, or enforce any rule, regulation, or policy: >(a) Forbidding or preventing employees from engaging or participating in politics or from becoming candidates for public office. >(b) Controlling or directing, or tending to control or direct the political activities or affiliations of employees. >- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/LAB/1/d2/3/5/s1101#sthash.uT6Lmptj.dpuf http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/LAB/1/d2/3/5/s1101#sthash... The other paradox is that this might do more damage to Mozilla than if he stayed, the reaction is pretty split but a lot of people see this as an act of cowardice on Mozilla's part. I'm personally finding it hard to respect how they handled it.
- stcredzero 13y ago
  But what the precedent of this event does, is drag our society one step deeper into the idea that groups pressuring companies to do (b) is "just how things are" in the US.
  - hellbanTHIS 13y ago
    It's even worse than that, this isn't like Bill Maher getting fired from ABC for something he said on the air during a time of hysteria. This was something Eich did in private six years ago which he may or may not regret, depending on how you interpret his blog post. The precedent this sets is truly awful.
  - cessor 13y ago
    That is true, it all leaves a certain aftertaste. I am not sure what to make of all this. A German saying goes like this: "The wiser mind gives in". But sometimes, that might leave an area ruled by idiots. So yeah, we (a hypothetical "us") won for accepting gay marriage but became bullies in the process.

betterunix 13y ago

This is just sad. Gay marriage has literally nothing to do with Mozilla's work or mission, and there has not been any evidence that Eich was using his position at Mozilla to advance some kind of anti-gay agenda. This is basically the definition of thoughtcrime -- Eich did nothing wrong other than to have an opinion and donate a bit of his own money to a cause he supports. It was not all that long ago that taking a pro-gay-rights position might have led to this kind of retaliation. If you are one of the people who rallied against Mozilla, just remember that political winds can shift and that in a few decades you might be the one receiving this treatment.

benched 13y ago
Today, I learned just how trivial people believe gay rights are. I'm actually surprised by it. That's much sadder to me.
- fennecfoxen 13y ago
  Today I learned that some people believe gay rights are so important that they think anyone who disagrees with the preferred, tendentious public-policy perspective on gay rights IS A MONSTER incapable of treating people like human beings and destructive to an organization. Also, pluralism is dead.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    ... as if yelling back at him was going to make the thread any better. Only the flag button on the story can save us now.
    - stcredzero 13y ago
      Flag button? Make it a flag pin!
- freyrs3 13y ago
  Most people are probably very much in favor of marriage equality, they just draw a different line than you about the role that personal opinions should play in an pluralistic workplace. Let's not conflate the two views here, there's been enough discussion around this to recognize that there are at least nuanced arguments on both sides that defy this binary classification.

foolinaround 13y ago

from his earlier interview, it definitely seems like he was forced out, and resigning was just to save face. Values and ideas may change, but seems like the witch-hunt will be around to stay... Will he continue to be CTO at Mozilla?

mcantelon 13y ago
According to his blog it sounds like he's gone from Mozilla but will still be informally involved.
kylec 13y ago
No, he's leaving Mozilla https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-mission/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/04/the-next-mission/

adrusi 13y ago

On the one hand I'm happy, because it will end the political controversy that has resulted in a blow against Mozilla, but on the other, I feel kind of bad. I mean sure, the guy is a massive prick for donating to support Prop 8, but that honestly is no where near as relevant to his position as CEO of a nonprofit software company as it was made to be. The guy has contributed a lot to his field, and based on my impressions, has been very valuable to Mozilla as an employee in the past. I fully believe that he would have been capable of moving Mozilla in the right direction had it not been for this scandal. With his resignation, Mozilla could end up with a CEO who hinders them instead.

ps4fanboy 13y ago
Why does being against gay marriage make you a "massive prick". If people for gay marriage wasnt a minority it would be legal already, are you saying that the majority of the population are massive pricks, and should be ostracized from their jobs? EDIT: here comes the leftist downvote brigade, the sad thing is I support gay marriage, you people should really grow a backbone.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- adrusi 13y ago
  There is a difference between not supporting gay marriage, and choosing to spend $1000 to actively support its prohibition with no personal return besides an increased probability of not seeing same sex couples married in the future. I find it sad that the opponents of gay marriage make a majority in the US, and I am happy to live in a state where they do not.
  - ps4fanboy 13y ago
    "There is a difference between not supporting gay marriage, and choosing to spend $1000 to actively support its prohibition." Care to elaborate on what that difference is?
  - 13y ago

dmur 13y ago

Thread for the announcement has been buried for some reason, but it's here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7526619 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7526619

ps4fanboy 13y ago

I believe in gay marriage but I also believe in peoples right to oppose it, this whole thing is shameful.

batiudrami 13y ago
I don't think that at any point Eich did not have the right to hold his opinion, just as people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with those who hold those views. Mozilla, and those (internal and external to Mozilla) who are calling for his resignation are not the government are not opressing him in any way. Whether or not this is the right call for Mozilla is up for debate, but whether his rights were infringed certainly is not.
- ben336 13y ago
  "people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with those who hold those views" If his beliefs are religiously motivated, actually companies do not have the right to discriminate based on that. And imagine a modified version of that statement used to justify forcing out a gay CEO: "people and companies have the right to choose not to associate with people who believe in and act upon homosexual beliefs"
  - batiudrami 13y ago
    Fair agument, I did not think that through. Mozilla is, of course, required to comply with any and all anti-discriminiation laws which apply. However, would I be correct in saying that his rights are not being infringed by having people (both internal and external to Mozilla) call for his resignation because of his beliefs, and his contributions to causes which are actively damaging to some of those in the community? Especially in the case of Mozilla, who rely heavily on volunteers, the opinions of those connected but not necessarily employed by Mozilla should be important.
- alextgordon 13y ago
  Clearly Eich did not have an actual right to hold his opinion, because he lost his job because of it!

ludicast 13y ago

I'd like to reiterate that Obama was against gay marriage during 2008 and California, the most liberal state ever, voted against it. A lot changes in 6 years(1). I'm a democrat in support of gay marriage because citizenship, benefits, and filing taxes jointly should be granted regardless of sexuality. But this witchhunt is ridiculous. However, a shitty language like js being necessary to deal with every day, that is unforgivable. 1 - The male-born transgender Fallon Fox is hailed as a gay hero for fighting again natural-born women. I don't agree with this (male bone structure, went through puberty as a male), and I definitely can't see this happening in 2008 for sure.

jonah 13y ago

Mob rule wins the day. Sigh.

vain 13y ago

If OKCupid are so against Brendan for his stance on gay marriage, they need to stop using javascript, for Brendan Eich invented javascript.

nathancahill 13y ago
Let's play a game called Name that Fallacy!

reuven 13y ago

I think that it's a shame that Eich had to resign. And I say this as someone who is very happy to see the winds changing in the US (and elsewhere), and who thinks that it's a good thing that gay marriage is becoming the norm and accepted law. Mozilla is a non-profit. It's normal and expected for a non-profit to have officers and directors who agree with the stance of the non-profit. I would expect the head of a vegetarian organization to be a vegetarian. I would expect the member of a religious organization to be an observant member of that religion. And I would expect that the head of a labor union patronize union shops more than non-union ones. So if Eich had taken a public stand against open-source software, or against Web standards, then it would be totally and utterly reasonable for him to resign, or to be forced out. But Eich didn't take a stand against things that are at the core of Mozilla's mission. Rather, he had a personal opinion -- one which I don't share -- that used to be mainstream, and is increasingly seen as out of the mainstream, at least in large portions of the US and many other liberal democracies. I think that it's unfair, and even a bit dangerous, for him to be forced out because of a personal political opinion. If the next head of Mozilla gets up and says that he thinks it's OK for women to have abortions, would it be reasonable for them to be forced out? After all, there are many millions of people who feel that abortion is murder. (I don't concur with this opinion, but I know that it exists.) If the next head of Mozilla donates money to anti-Obamacare ads, saying that things should go back to the way they were a few years ago, you could make a pretty good argument in favor of saying that this opinion will effectively condemn many people to death, or perhaps crippling poverty. I don't think that we want this to happen. We don't want CEOs to be ousted because they have political opinions which reflect a minority. I've often engaged in political discussions and debates with clients, some of whom hold opinions that I find completely and utterly wrong-headed, and perhaps even dangerous. But I'm not going to stop working with them because they hold different opinions. Rather, I'm going to be professional and work with them -- and perhaps even continue to debate them, so that they'll see my side of the argument. Eich believes that gay marriage is wrong. I believe that he's wrong about that, and history is increasingly against his opinion. But his opinion doesn't have to do with Mozilla's mission. By capitulating to public opinion over Eich's personal politics, Mozilla has opened Pandora's box. I worry that people who want to become the heads of major companies and organizations will keep their opinions and donations to themselves, for fear of eventually being condemned for those opinions. And that can only be bad for democracy and openness.

ielshareef 13y ago

Would there be such outrage over Eich's resignation had he donated to KKK or an anti-Semite group? Just curious.