4 ms·

All my life I've considered these goons talking about "evil homosexual lobby" and "reactionary liberals" to be basically wacko mad bigots. For the first time I

by muyuu 13y ago

All my life I've considered these goons talking about "evil homosexual lobby" and "reactionary liberals" to be basically wacko mad bigots. For the first time I find myself thinking there might be something to that. When you find that your movement excuses means like lynching ("consequences" to your opinions and your freedom of speech) and persecution as long as they help your goals, then maybe your movement has lost the plot. I'm seeing truly scary comments that would have made McCarthyists cringe. In an environment where I'd never have expected them.

Borogove 13y ago
That's a really interesting definition of "lynching".
- muyuu 13y ago
  Hey, you can say and think whatever you want... but be careful of the "consequences". You are free... but be very afraid that we might find that you think the wrong thing. This school of thought is being defended across tech forums. Appalling.
  - devindotcom 13y ago
    Are you saying we shouldn't be careful of the consequences of our words and deeds? edit since i can't respond to myself: and here is an interesting definition of "fascism."
    - muyuu 13y ago
      I'm saying that publicly rallying for the persecution of someone based on a prop donation shouldn't be encouraged or defended in any way. It's pure fascism.
      - SolarNet 13y ago
        Oh yea, because having to step down from a company is like going to jail, or hell, not being able to see your dying significant other because you aren't allowed to marry. Yep he was definitely persecuted.
mikeash 13y ago
That poor Mr. Eich, "lynched" by the mob. Well, not really lynched, he's still alive. But they beat him up pretty good! Oh, actually, he's fine. But his livelihood is destroyed and he'll never work in the industry again. Scratch that, apparently he has enough funds to take vacations while he decides what to do next. But hey, he doesn't get to be CEO of a big company! How terrible. The injustice done to Mr. Eich is minor. He hasn't been killed or injured. He hasn't been blacklisted. He lost his job, in an industry where the average worker has to fight off recruiters with a stick, let alone someone like him. Yes, there are consequences for your opinions when you become the public face of a large company, especially when that company is founded on some set of principles besides "make money". Those terrifying consequences involve not getting to be CEO anymore, and that's it. Big shock.
wonderzombie 13y ago
Lynching? Please. There's no legal right to be a CEO. Nobody's bringing this guy up in front of a congressional committee. He exercised his constitutional right to donate money, and everyone else exercised their constitutional right to criticize a public figure. You'll see truly scary comments anywhere and everywhere on the Internet. If you judge every movement by its most extreme, unhinged elements, then there are exactly zero sane or wholesome movements.
chasing 13y ago
Wait, what? This is the fault of the "evil homosexual lobby" and "reactionary liberals?" The guy's a bigot. (Unless he's made a statement disavowing his contribution in some way.) Being against equal rights for gay folks is being a bigot. Sorry. If you don't want to catch shit for being a bigot when you're placed in a position of public power and trust, don't act like a bigot. Or give money to bigoted causes.
- muyuu 13y ago
  Make no mistake. What happened here is the strongest point one could have against full disclosure and transparency in the electoral system. What we are seeing here is a person being harshly punished for his campaign donations. Basically for his political opinion (and an opinion that passed with a strong majority in California to boot). This is enormously destructive for democracy. It's McCarthyism of the highest level. Both the fact and its staunch defence by many in the forums. Never had the gay community been casted so intolerant before, or not that I know of, at least.
  - chasing 13y ago
    Is there a "McCarthyism" version of Godwin's law? Seems like that needs a name. Anyway: I'm unclear why it's inappropriate to pass judgment on people based on their political speech. Also, you're playing that trick with the word "intolerance" that people sometimes play... There's "racial and sexual intolerance," which should be weeded out. It has no place in our society. But there are all sorts of "intolerances" which are great! For example: We should be intolerant of things which drag people down and ruin lives. Disease. Scientific illiteracy. Lack of the freedom to marry whomever one wishes. Bigotry.
    - muyuu 13y ago
      A campaign donation is not political speech. It's public by law. A law that now shows clear conflicts if the internet mobs are going to be after people based on them. The ways you are defending are the textbook definition of bigotry. I agree that they shouldn't have a place in society.
PedroBatista 13y ago
It's disgusting what these people did to Brendan. The guardians of the moral high ground and the champions of liberty and tolerance can't even stand next to someone with a different opinion about a specific subject. They are the same people that demand some guy to be fired because he made some joke on the radio, they paint themselves as happy all inclusive and kind fellas but are the worst kind of human being there is, highly educated, militant behaviour and not a single ounce of self evaluation. How pathetic is this society when someone is persecuted because he chooses the "wrong" side, so of course he has to "pay". Adding to the tragedy, many of these mindless souls don't have a clue who Brendan Eich is and the fundamental role he played in the last 20+ years. Ironically, many of them partly owe their careers to the man they just demanded to get fired. Finally, this is a really dark day for Mozilla, Brendan was a HUGE part of Mozilla both in technical and cultural terms, in the next few years we will feel the consequences. Even if he was just a regular guy, this is a tremendous injustice committed by the "always right" purest of the pure.

by muyuu 13y ago

Borogove 13y ago

That's a really interesting definition of "lynching".

muyuu 13y ago
Hey, you can say and think whatever you want... but be careful of the "consequences". You are free... but be very afraid that we might find that you think the wrong thing. This school of thought is being defended across tech forums. Appalling.
- devindotcom 13y ago
  Are you saying we shouldn't be careful of the consequences of our words and deeds? edit since i can't respond to myself: and here is an interesting definition of "fascism."
  - muyuu 13y ago
    I'm saying that publicly rallying for the persecution of someone based on a prop donation shouldn't be encouraged or defended in any way. It's pure fascism.
    - SolarNet 13y ago
      Oh yea, because having to step down from a company is like going to jail, or hell, not being able to see your dying significant other because you aren't allowed to marry. Yep he was definitely persecuted.

mikeash 13y ago

That poor Mr. Eich, "lynched" by the mob. Well, not really lynched, he's still alive. But they beat him up pretty good! Oh, actually, he's fine. But his livelihood is destroyed and he'll never work in the industry again. Scratch that, apparently he has enough funds to take vacations while he decides what to do next. But hey, he doesn't get to be CEO of a big company! How terrible. The injustice done to Mr. Eich is minor. He hasn't been killed or injured. He hasn't been blacklisted. He lost his job, in an industry where the average worker has to fight off recruiters with a stick, let alone someone like him. Yes, there are consequences for your opinions when you become the public face of a large company, especially when that company is founded on some set of principles besides "make money". Those terrifying consequences involve not getting to be CEO anymore, and that's it. Big shock.

wonderzombie 13y ago

Lynching? Please. There's no legal right to be a CEO. Nobody's bringing this guy up in front of a congressional committee. He exercised his constitutional right to donate money, and everyone else exercised their constitutional right to criticize a public figure. You'll see truly scary comments anywhere and everywhere on the Internet. If you judge every movement by its most extreme, unhinged elements, then there are exactly zero sane or wholesome movements.

chasing 13y ago

Wait, what? This is the fault of the "evil homosexual lobby" and "reactionary liberals?" The guy's a bigot. (Unless he's made a statement disavowing his contribution in some way.) Being against equal rights for gay folks is being a bigot. Sorry. If you don't want to catch shit for being a bigot when you're placed in a position of public power and trust, don't act like a bigot. Or give money to bigoted causes.

muyuu 13y ago
Make no mistake. What happened here is the strongest point one could have against full disclosure and transparency in the electoral system. What we are seeing here is a person being harshly punished for his campaign donations. Basically for his political opinion (and an opinion that passed with a strong majority in California to boot). This is enormously destructive for democracy. It's McCarthyism of the highest level. Both the fact and its staunch defence by many in the forums. Never had the gay community been casted so intolerant before, or not that I know of, at least.
- chasing 13y ago
  Is there a "McCarthyism" version of Godwin's law? Seems like that needs a name. Anyway: I'm unclear why it's inappropriate to pass judgment on people based on their political speech. Also, you're playing that trick with the word "intolerance" that people sometimes play... There's "racial and sexual intolerance," which should be weeded out. It has no place in our society. But there are all sorts of "intolerances" which are great! For example: We should be intolerant of things which drag people down and ruin lives. Disease. Scientific illiteracy. Lack of the freedom to marry whomever one wishes. Bigotry.
  - muyuu 13y ago
    A campaign donation is not political speech. It's public by law. A law that now shows clear conflicts if the internet mobs are going to be after people based on them. The ways you are defending are the textbook definition of bigotry. I agree that they shouldn't have a place in society.

PedroBatista 13y ago

It's disgusting what these people did to Brendan. The guardians of the moral high ground and the champions of liberty and tolerance can't even stand next to someone with a different opinion about a specific subject. They are the same people that demand some guy to be fired because he made some joke on the radio, they paint themselves as happy all inclusive and kind fellas but are the worst kind of human being there is, highly educated, militant behaviour and not a single ounce of self evaluation. How pathetic is this society when someone is persecuted because he chooses the "wrong" side, so of course he has to "pay". Adding to the tragedy, many of these mindless souls don't have a clue who Brendan Eich is and the fundamental role he played in the last 20+ years. Ironically, many of them partly owe their careers to the man they just demanded to get fired. Finally, this is a really dark day for Mozilla, Brendan was a HUGE part of Mozilla both in technical and cultural terms, in the next few years we will feel the consequences. Even if he was just a regular guy, this is a tremendous injustice committed by the "always right" purest of the pure.