7 ms·

The Next Mission

102 points by bpierre 13y ago

AdamTReineke 13y ago
Note that it says he's leaving Mozilla. That was the part missing from the Mozilla blog post, I believe.
- ra88it 13y ago
  There was plenty missing from that Mozilla post, but yeah, that was a big one!
lupatus 13y ago
The solution to his network problem is probably something bizarre, like URbit (http://www.urbit.org/ http://www.urbit.org/).
- malnourish 13y ago
  Was your account hijacked? I feel like this comment is unlike the rest of your comments.
  - lupatus 13y ago
    Nope, but thanks for the concern. I just have diverse interests, and think that the URbit project is quite strange and, as a result, sort of wonderful, IMO. For example, the algebra grammar for the Nock VM is fascinating for me. Moreover, I'm thinking of even using the C# port of Nock as a basis for bringing the rest of the project over to the Windows platform. My children take up a lot of time though.
  - lupatus 13y ago
    So, I just read through all of the other comments and see that I was the only person who didn't comment on Eich's ouster. I think I understand now why you asked if my account was hijacked.
lawl 13y ago
I personally think it's sad that he's leaving But I do have to say I think Brandon handled that really well and its definitely the right thing to do. He had to step down eventually from mozilla to avoid further damage to the brand. I think it's good he realized that and takes on new challenges.
- protomyth 13y ago
  "He had to step down eventually from mozilla to avoid further damage to the brand." In the other thread[1], I pointed out the damage will now continue via a second mob that seems to be sifting through all the other Mozilla employee's donations. It happens a lot with this stuff in politics, and it sucks to high heaven having a group looking at everything you've ever donated. 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7527579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7527579
  - awnird 13y ago
    If you're not comfortable having people know you donated to hate groups, you might want to consider not donating to hate groups.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      Do you consider Mr. Eich's donation to a "hate group"?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
natural219 13y ago
When I first heard the news, I was very angry and confused. After reading the Recode[1] writeup, it made a little more sense. The key point was the interviews where he refused to back down from his opinions or apologize. Some could find that respectable (and ultimately I do), but if you take on the position of CEO you need to be prepared to eat your words. It would have been very easy for him to just apologize and have everyone go back to their business. It's sad that people are so shallow, but that's just the way it is. I'm not upset that he was fired. That said. I have nothing but fury for the people instigating these kinds of senseless whichhunts. The key point here is that Eich has been CTO of Mozilla for years. CTO to CEO, while a big transition, is much smaller distance in executive representation than this controversy calls for. What I suspect is somebody in the Gawkerati saw a news piece on "somebody something new CEO of Mozilla", Googled his name, and dug up one political contribution from 5 years ago to create a controversy out of thin air. This kind of behavior sickens me -- not just the media publications that stir this pot, but the individual people boiling at the seams to crucify everyone with a different opinion. In 2014, people that contribute nothing to society other than digging up controversies have the power to bring down historic figures from pushing the envelope of innovation and opening the Web to allow to allow this very kind of expression. At the end of the day, that is the ultimate irony. The technology that Branden worked his life on gave voice to those who destroyed him. The entire point of the web is to allow this kind of radical expression, and the moment we get it we use it to tear down and villanize the people who make it run. Absolutely disgraceful. If you're glad Eich resigned, I really only have one question for you: What do you hope to gain out of this? Do you think this will push the envelope toward greater acceptance of homosexuality? Is the idea that if we villify ideas enough and those that express them, they will eventually go away? Or does it just, I don't know, feel good? [1]http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich-resigns-as-ceo-and-also-from-foundation-board/ http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich...
- jamesaguilar 13y ago
  > Is the idea that if we villify [homophobia] enough and those that express them, they will eventually go away? Yes. It's been generally working with racism, sexism, classism, and a bunch of other bad -isms. The needs of oppressed groups outweigh the needs of their oppressors to express their views free of consequences.
pvnick 13y ago
This is so upsetting, it's infuriating. Here we had a wonderful chance for someone brilliant like Eich to lead one of the most important organizations in defending us against looming omnipresent state surveillance, and a bunch of social justice warriors went and ruined it. Pat yourselves on the back guys, you won!
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- visualR 13y ago
  Send him to the concentration camp of tolerance!
  - thenmar 13y ago
    If you don't tolerate my bigotry, you're intolerant!
    - mwfunk 13y ago
      I don't know why this got downvoted. The "how can you be tolerant when you don't tolerate intolerance" thing needs to be made fun of relentlessly until it stops being a thing.
      - visualR 13y ago
        How do you know Eich is intolerant? Maybe he is just misguided on an issue that really shouldnt be up to him. No one said tolerate intolerance, but considering the response to Eich, some proportionality is needed.
        wonderzombie 13y ago
        Um, how could his actions not suggest intolerance? He contributed money to a campaign which essentially persecutes a minority. In what universe is that not bigoted? "He didn't mean it" is a ridiculously flimsy defense.
rinon 13y ago
This is very sad and unfortunate. Brendan was basically forced out of his own job because of a political view he supported. No matter whether you agree or disagree with someone's views, a discussion should be reasonable and fair, not a lynching in the court of popular opinion. We should respect others views, and their freedom to support any political position, if we wish those same freedoms for ourselves.
- thenmar 13y ago
  What if he were a black woman and the political group she donated to was one that sought to prevent white men from becoming engineers? They can still do engineering, of course, but they can't have the state title and benefits that go along with it. Would you feel the same way?
- rhizome 13y ago
  Consider what would happen to a CEO who held the political view that profits should be minimized.
  - throwaway812 13y ago
    Tarsnap?
  - rinon 13y ago
    Does this view conflict with the job description? If this is so, then this makes the person ill-suited for the job, just like innumerable other workers who don't have the best qualifications for their jobs. Does this mean the view is wrong? Not necessarily, but that is an entirely different question. Does this mean that we should publicly deride this person for their view and boycott the company who hired them? No. This is the job of the board of directors, who answer to the shareholders of the company, and their responsibility. Certainly anyone outside can offer advice, but only as an outsider, who has no right or reason to blackmail and threaten the company.
    - vertex-four 13y ago
      I'm sorry, are you suggesting that we do not in fact have the right to choose which companies to support based on our opinions of them and their employees, and to tell others of our choices? That seems a rather more slippery slope than anything else here.
pbateman 13y ago
Well, it's not going to be a popular opinion but I think it's a shame he's been forced out. Simply having the wrong views shouldn't make him ineligible for a job.
- rhizome 13y ago
  Why? Doesn't it happen all the time? I'm not just talking about "culture fit," either.
- benched 13y ago
  It has proven to be a much more popular opinion, at least on Hacker News, than I ever would have thought possible in 2014.
  - influx 13y ago
    There may be those who disagree who are now afraid to speak, considering their jobs may be at risk if they express the "wrong" opinion.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - wtbob 13y ago
      Yeah, I've been afraid to speak on it for quite some time, but I will now: I think that 'homosexual marriage' is a phrase which makes as much sense as the phrase 'green-tasting.' FWIW, I supported the unsuccessful civil-union law in my state. I think anyone who wants to form a household and get the economic & regulatory benefits hitherto attached to marriage (insurance, hospital visits &c.) should be permitted to, regardless of sexual activity or indeed its absence (why shouldn't a fraternity, or a few friends, be able to form a civil union in order to get those same benefits?). I don't believe I hold any animus against homosexual folks. But marriage is just not about sexual attraction, and the idea that it is, is rapidly destroying marriage.
- pbreit 13y ago
  That's an overly simplistic way of looking at it. He had a chance to resolve the matter differently and wasn't able to. It's possible/probable that he is not CEO material (for this company at this time).
KwanEsq 13y ago
It's sad that Mozilla is losing someone of Eich's technical ability, but having him as CEO simply wasn't tenable. His appointment was a misjudgement.
mauricioc 13y ago
I think he just deleted/deactivated his Twitter account, @BrendanEich.
- agumonkey 13y ago
  I hope it's his decision and not some misguided hack. Probably too many angry comments to be useful anymore anyway.
bp123 13y ago
It's a shame he couldn't reconsider his oppressive stance on gay rights, which would have allowed him to accomplish the goals with Mozilla. Oh well.
jhonovich 13y ago
Is there any record or incidences in his 15 years working at Mozilla of him discriminating or maltreating anyone? I ask this because, in the Recode article, Mozilla's executive chairwomen, says "That [the contribution] was shocking to me, because I never saw any kind of behavior or attitude from him that was not in line with Mozilla’s values of inclusiveness" Unless there is some evidence, 15 years track record in a company should seemingly count for more than a single political contribution. Yes/no?
- Zelphyr 13y ago
  I think this helps clarify the distinction between him being CEO and a blatant racist being CEO (a comparison that seems to be common in this thread). Should a person be allowed in a position of power if they are able to separate their personal beliefs and lead the organization properly, without improper bias against anyone? I suspect this has happened many times before. I don't see how the LGBT community has benefited much from this. It seems to me that giving him credit for clearly not letting his personal beliefs affect his work relationships and taking a wait-and-see stance would've resulted in a more productive outcome. Would this not have been an opportunity to educate someone who is otherwise seemingly capable of reasoned and rational thought?
evertonfuller 13y ago
Keyboard social justice warriors won then. Sad day. Best of luck to Mozilla. And to America.
- evertonfuller 13y ago
  Loving all the downvotes.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ChuckMcM 13y ago
I don't suppose anyone knows if he has a severance package? Doesn't seem like he is being forced out for 'cause' and the celebrity of his departure at Mozilla could easily damage his ability to be employed as a CEO elsewhere.
pbreit 13y ago
Would any of the admins (or anyone) care to elaborate on why all the Eich-related posts are being deleted?
- yaur 13y ago
  Most likely because they are not remaining civil very long. Time for pending comments?
adwf 13y ago
I've posted this elsewhere, but in one of the many dupes that got buried, so I'll repost it here: I really think it was inevitable once people started complaining about his political background. The whole appointment had become about the gay rights issue rather than about where he would lead Mozilla in the future. No one really thought he was suddenly going to turn Mozilla into an anti-gay rights organisation, but standing down is still the decent thing to do. It lets Mozilla focus back on their mission and carry on without controversy. In a way it's a little sad though. I was kinda hoping that he'd say he'd had a change of heart since prop8 and renounce his views. Maybe that's just the optimist in me though...
ndarilek 13y ago
Another perspective that I'm surprised hasn't been voiced: Brendan had the privilege to climb to the rank of CEO, if only for a few days. But it is because of views like his that many don't get a chance at all to climb to anywhere near those heights. I know many qualified, talented, awesome people who, if they were straight and able to marry the loves of their lives, could become American citizens and pursue meaningful opportunities here (arguments about whether moving here is such a good idea these days not withstanding.) And marriage is just one of many ways in which we as a society diminish, limit or actively dehumanize those not a member of the majority. I tolerate your views right up to the point where they make someone's dying moments hell because their husband or wife can't visit, or bar someone from working for someone else because of their gender or skin color. At that point, yeah, I'll gladly be a biggot against biggots. Perhaps the reason we don't see more minorities in positions of power is that so many of us exercise our influence, be it via rhetoric or $1000 donations, to keep them out of those positions. I can't bring myself to feel bad when someone who does that is brought down.
yaur 13y ago
I have misgivings here mainly because I have previously given enough to political campaigns that any prospective employer that cares can find out what my politics are. The idea that my personal political opinions are fair game in a hiring decision is scary. Granted, its a little different when we are talking about the CEO of a foundation with a specific ideology, but if this becomes wide spread the chilling effects are something to be concerned about.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Granted, its a little different when we are talking about the CEO of a foundation with a specific ideology Eich was CEO of Mozilla Corporation, not the Mozilla Foundation.
jim1313 13y ago
He was on the side of the majority of California, this wasn't a vote in Texas or India. Even the mainstream Democrats were against Gay marriage a couple years earlier. Many anti-abortion proponents consider abortion a form of murder, which is a more serious issue. But I don't see campaigns against CEOs who support abortion. Comparing his view with racism is ridiculous. He's not for discriminating against homosexuals, just for keeping marriage as it's been. Can the growing polygamist movement immediately discredit everyone opposed to them as bigots also?
- devindotcom 13y ago
  As others have pointed out - if he was against interracial marriage, would you consider that as constituting racism?
- bashinator 13y ago
  If we were trying to keep marriage "as it's been", then I would have gotten a dowry, had a couple concubines on the side, and my wives would have been considered my personal property.
- wonderzombie 13y ago
  "Keeping marriage as it's been" is a post-hoc rationalization, to attempt to disconnect the anti-gay-marriage crowd from a religious argument. Go read the Bible that's used to justify this crap and write up a compare/contrast.
Futurebot 13y ago
People who think this is unjust, think about this. If Eich had instead donated to a Neo-Nazi party, a group that supports re-legalizing slavery, or an organization taking away women's right to vote, would your opinion be any different? For those who say 'no, my opinion would be the same. Free speech is free speech and political affiliation is political affiliation' would you be comfortable working at Mozilla? I think this is the much more important practical concern. Eich's ability to continue as CEO was _compromised_ - could he hire and retain talent? Would Mozilla have seen a mass quit? Could they continue to get volunteers to work on the code? The social justice warrior lynch mob can be an ugly, fickle beast, and its actions can be a double-edged sword, there's no question about it. In this case, they may have saved Mozilla (and Eich) from themselves. edit: being the public face of a company is different in kind than being another kind of worker. Its "distance" from CTO may not be large, but the "king is the king" as it were. edit 2: a couple of bigger questions here that will/should be asked. Should CEOs remain apolitical, or at least take great pains to hide their affiliations - particularly in industries with many much more liberal-minded workers? Will they after this? Interesting stat: latest Pew has 61% of Republicans under 30 supporting gay marriage. Take that as you may, but I'd go with 'excellent bellwether for society at large'.
pastProlog 13y ago
I'm not that surprised that the mind warped enough to create something like Javascript is also warped enough to have some weird backwoods Christian fundamentalist fear of homosexuals. Good riddance.
vectorpush 13y ago
Eich had the freedom to donate his hard earned money to an anti-gay cause. LGBT supporters had the freedom to make blog posts and tweets about their opinions on the matter. Eich had the freedom to stand by his position. Mozilla had the freedom to designate its CEO. Why the outrage? The system worked. The only group that had it's freedom threatened was the group of individuals targeted by the prop 8 law. Denizens of the internet could have spared Eich their ire if they were so inclined. Eich could have apologized if he were so inclined. Mozilla could have stuck by Eich if they were so inclined. Everybody acted in their own interest and Eich's resignation is a consequence of that fact.
myers 13y ago
Here's my question: What was the board thinking to put him in place? It's not as if Eich won a contest just by inventing one of the most widely distributed programming languages, there were folks who decided he was the best to lead Mozilla forward. How did they go so wrong?

The Next Mission

102 points by bpierre 13y ago

AdamTReineke 13y ago

Note that it says he's leaving Mozilla. That was the part missing from the Mozilla blog post, I believe.

ra88it 13y ago
There was plenty missing from that Mozilla post, but yeah, that was a big one!

lupatus 13y ago

The solution to his network problem is probably something bizarre, like URbit (http://www.urbit.org/ http://www.urbit.org/).

malnourish 13y ago
Was your account hijacked? I feel like this comment is unlike the rest of your comments.
- lupatus 13y ago
  Nope, but thanks for the concern. I just have diverse interests, and think that the URbit project is quite strange and, as a result, sort of wonderful, IMO. For example, the algebra grammar for the Nock VM is fascinating for me. Moreover, I'm thinking of even using the C# port of Nock as a basis for bringing the rest of the project over to the Windows platform. My children take up a lot of time though.
- lupatus 13y ago
  So, I just read through all of the other comments and see that I was the only person who didn't comment on Eich's ouster. I think I understand now why you asked if my account was hijacked.

lawl 13y ago

I personally think it's sad that he's leaving But I do have to say I think Brandon handled that really well and its definitely the right thing to do. He had to step down eventually from mozilla to avoid further damage to the brand. I think it's good he realized that and takes on new challenges.

protomyth 13y ago
"He had to step down eventually from mozilla to avoid further damage to the brand." In the other thread[1], I pointed out the damage will now continue via a second mob that seems to be sifting through all the other Mozilla employee's donations. It happens a lot with this stuff in politics, and it sucks to high heaven having a group looking at everything you've ever donated. 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7527579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7527579
- awnird 13y ago
  If you're not comfortable having people know you donated to hate groups, you might want to consider not donating to hate groups.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    Do you consider Mr. Eich's donation to a "hate group"?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

natural219 13y ago

When I first heard the news, I was very angry and confused. After reading the Recode[1] writeup, it made a little more sense. The key point was the interviews where he refused to back down from his opinions or apologize. Some could find that respectable (and ultimately I do), but if you take on the position of CEO you need to be prepared to eat your words. It would have been very easy for him to just apologize and have everyone go back to their business. It's sad that people are so shallow, but that's just the way it is. I'm not upset that he was fired. That said. I have nothing but fury for the people instigating these kinds of senseless whichhunts. The key point here is that Eich has been CTO of Mozilla for years. CTO to CEO, while a big transition, is much smaller distance in executive representation than this controversy calls for. What I suspect is somebody in the Gawkerati saw a news piece on "somebody something new CEO of Mozilla", Googled his name, and dug up one political contribution from 5 years ago to create a controversy out of thin air. This kind of behavior sickens me -- not just the media publications that stir this pot, but the individual people boiling at the seams to crucify everyone with a different opinion. In 2014, people that contribute nothing to society other than digging up controversies have the power to bring down historic figures from pushing the envelope of innovation and opening the Web to allow to allow this very kind of expression. At the end of the day, that is the ultimate irony. The technology that Branden worked his life on gave voice to those who destroyed him. The entire point of the web is to allow this kind of radical expression, and the moment we get it we use it to tear down and villanize the people who make it run. Absolutely disgraceful. If you're glad Eich resigned, I really only have one question for you: What do you hope to gain out of this? Do you think this will push the envelope toward greater acceptance of homosexuality? Is the idea that if we villify ideas enough and those that express them, they will eventually go away? Or does it just, I don't know, feel good? [1]http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich-resigns-as-ceo-and-also-from-foundation-board/ http://recode.net/2014/04/03/mozilla-co-founder-brendan-eich...

jamesaguilar 13y ago
> Is the idea that if we villify [homophobia] enough and those that express them, they will eventually go away? Yes. It's been generally working with racism, sexism, classism, and a bunch of other bad -isms. The needs of oppressed groups outweigh the needs of their oppressors to express their views free of consequences.

pvnick 13y ago

This is so upsetting, it's infuriating. Here we had a wonderful chance for someone brilliant like Eich to lead one of the most important organizations in defending us against looming omnipresent state surveillance, and a bunch of social justice warriors went and ruined it. Pat yourselves on the back guys, you won!

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
visualR 13y ago
Send him to the concentration camp of tolerance!
- thenmar 13y ago
  If you don't tolerate my bigotry, you're intolerant!
  - mwfunk 13y ago
    I don't know why this got downvoted. The "how can you be tolerant when you don't tolerate intolerance" thing needs to be made fun of relentlessly until it stops being a thing.
    - visualR 13y ago
      How do you know Eich is intolerant? Maybe he is just misguided on an issue that really shouldnt be up to him. No one said tolerate intolerance, but considering the response to Eich, some proportionality is needed.
      - wonderzombie 13y ago
        Um, how could his actions not suggest intolerance? He contributed money to a campaign which essentially persecutes a minority. In what universe is that not bigoted? "He didn't mean it" is a ridiculously flimsy defense.

rinon 13y ago

This is very sad and unfortunate. Brendan was basically forced out of his own job because of a political view he supported. No matter whether you agree or disagree with someone's views, a discussion should be reasonable and fair, not a lynching in the court of popular opinion. We should respect others views, and their freedom to support any political position, if we wish those same freedoms for ourselves.

thenmar 13y ago
What if he were a black woman and the political group she donated to was one that sought to prevent white men from becoming engineers? They can still do engineering, of course, but they can't have the state title and benefits that go along with it. Would you feel the same way?
rhizome 13y ago
Consider what would happen to a CEO who held the political view that profits should be minimized.
- throwaway812 13y ago
  Tarsnap?
- rinon 13y ago
  Does this view conflict with the job description? If this is so, then this makes the person ill-suited for the job, just like innumerable other workers who don't have the best qualifications for their jobs. Does this mean the view is wrong? Not necessarily, but that is an entirely different question. Does this mean that we should publicly deride this person for their view and boycott the company who hired them? No. This is the job of the board of directors, who answer to the shareholders of the company, and their responsibility. Certainly anyone outside can offer advice, but only as an outsider, who has no right or reason to blackmail and threaten the company.
  - vertex-four 13y ago
    I'm sorry, are you suggesting that we do not in fact have the right to choose which companies to support based on our opinions of them and their employees, and to tell others of our choices? That seems a rather more slippery slope than anything else here.

pbateman 13y ago

Well, it's not going to be a popular opinion but I think it's a shame he's been forced out. Simply having the wrong views shouldn't make him ineligible for a job.

rhizome 13y ago
Why? Doesn't it happen all the time? I'm not just talking about "culture fit," either.
benched 13y ago
It has proven to be a much more popular opinion, at least on Hacker News, than I ever would have thought possible in 2014.
- influx 13y ago
  There may be those who disagree who are now afraid to speak, considering their jobs may be at risk if they express the "wrong" opinion.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - wtbob 13y ago
    Yeah, I've been afraid to speak on it for quite some time, but I will now: I think that 'homosexual marriage' is a phrase which makes as much sense as the phrase 'green-tasting.' FWIW, I supported the unsuccessful civil-union law in my state. I think anyone who wants to form a household and get the economic & regulatory benefits hitherto attached to marriage (insurance, hospital visits &c.) should be permitted to, regardless of sexual activity or indeed its absence (why shouldn't a fraternity, or a few friends, be able to form a civil union in order to get those same benefits?). I don't believe I hold any animus against homosexual folks. But marriage is just not about sexual attraction, and the idea that it is, is rapidly destroying marriage.
pbreit 13y ago
That's an overly simplistic way of looking at it. He had a chance to resolve the matter differently and wasn't able to. It's possible/probable that he is not CEO material (for this company at this time).

KwanEsq 13y ago

It's sad that Mozilla is losing someone of Eich's technical ability, but having him as CEO simply wasn't tenable. His appointment was a misjudgement.

mauricioc 13y ago

I think he just deleted/deactivated his Twitter account, @BrendanEich.

agumonkey 13y ago
I hope it's his decision and not some misguided hack. Probably too many angry comments to be useful anymore anyway.

bp123 13y ago

It's a shame he couldn't reconsider his oppressive stance on gay rights, which would have allowed him to accomplish the goals with Mozilla. Oh well.

jhonovich 13y ago

Is there any record or incidences in his 15 years working at Mozilla of him discriminating or maltreating anyone? I ask this because, in the Recode article, Mozilla's executive chairwomen, says "That [the contribution] was shocking to me, because I never saw any kind of behavior or attitude from him that was not in line with Mozilla’s values of inclusiveness" Unless there is some evidence, 15 years track record in a company should seemingly count for more than a single political contribution. Yes/no?

Zelphyr 13y ago
I think this helps clarify the distinction between him being CEO and a blatant racist being CEO (a comparison that seems to be common in this thread). Should a person be allowed in a position of power if they are able to separate their personal beliefs and lead the organization properly, without improper bias against anyone? I suspect this has happened many times before. I don't see how the LGBT community has benefited much from this. It seems to me that giving him credit for clearly not letting his personal beliefs affect his work relationships and taking a wait-and-see stance would've resulted in a more productive outcome. Would this not have been an opportunity to educate someone who is otherwise seemingly capable of reasoned and rational thought?

evertonfuller 13y ago

Keyboard social justice warriors won then. Sad day. Best of luck to Mozilla. And to America.

evertonfuller 13y ago
Loving all the downvotes.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ChuckMcM 13y ago

I don't suppose anyone knows if he has a severance package? Doesn't seem like he is being forced out for 'cause' and the celebrity of his departure at Mozilla could easily damage his ability to be employed as a CEO elsewhere.

pbreit 13y ago

Would any of the admins (or anyone) care to elaborate on why all the Eich-related posts are being deleted?

yaur 13y ago
Most likely because they are not remaining civil very long. Time for pending comments?

adwf 13y ago

I've posted this elsewhere, but in one of the many dupes that got buried, so I'll repost it here: I really think it was inevitable once people started complaining about his political background. The whole appointment had become about the gay rights issue rather than about where he would lead Mozilla in the future. No one really thought he was suddenly going to turn Mozilla into an anti-gay rights organisation, but standing down is still the decent thing to do. It lets Mozilla focus back on their mission and carry on without controversy. In a way it's a little sad though. I was kinda hoping that he'd say he'd had a change of heart since prop8 and renounce his views. Maybe that's just the optimist in me though...

ndarilek 13y ago

Another perspective that I'm surprised hasn't been voiced: Brendan had the privilege to climb to the rank of CEO, if only for a few days. But it is because of views like his that many don't get a chance at all to climb to anywhere near those heights. I know many qualified, talented, awesome people who, if they were straight and able to marry the loves of their lives, could become American citizens and pursue meaningful opportunities here (arguments about whether moving here is such a good idea these days not withstanding.) And marriage is just one of many ways in which we as a society diminish, limit or actively dehumanize those not a member of the majority. I tolerate your views right up to the point where they make someone's dying moments hell because their husband or wife can't visit, or bar someone from working for someone else because of their gender or skin color. At that point, yeah, I'll gladly be a biggot against biggots. Perhaps the reason we don't see more minorities in positions of power is that so many of us exercise our influence, be it via rhetoric or $1000 donations, to keep them out of those positions. I can't bring myself to feel bad when someone who does that is brought down.

yaur 13y ago

I have misgivings here mainly because I have previously given enough to political campaigns that any prospective employer that cares can find out what my politics are. The idea that my personal political opinions are fair game in a hiring decision is scary. Granted, its a little different when we are talking about the CEO of a foundation with a specific ideology, but if this becomes wide spread the chilling effects are something to be concerned about.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Granted, its a little different when we are talking about the CEO of a foundation with a specific ideology Eich was CEO of Mozilla Corporation, not the Mozilla Foundation.

jim1313 13y ago

He was on the side of the majority of California, this wasn't a vote in Texas or India. Even the mainstream Democrats were against Gay marriage a couple years earlier. Many anti-abortion proponents consider abortion a form of murder, which is a more serious issue. But I don't see campaigns against CEOs who support abortion. Comparing his view with racism is ridiculous. He's not for discriminating against homosexuals, just for keeping marriage as it's been. Can the growing polygamist movement immediately discredit everyone opposed to them as bigots also?

devindotcom 13y ago
As others have pointed out - if he was against interracial marriage, would you consider that as constituting racism?
bashinator 13y ago
If we were trying to keep marriage "as it's been", then I would have gotten a dowry, had a couple concubines on the side, and my wives would have been considered my personal property.
wonderzombie 13y ago
"Keeping marriage as it's been" is a post-hoc rationalization, to attempt to disconnect the anti-gay-marriage crowd from a religious argument. Go read the Bible that's used to justify this crap and write up a compare/contrast.

Futurebot 13y ago

People who think this is unjust, think about this. If Eich had instead donated to a Neo-Nazi party, a group that supports re-legalizing slavery, or an organization taking away women's right to vote, would your opinion be any different? For those who say 'no, my opinion would be the same. Free speech is free speech and political affiliation is political affiliation' would you be comfortable working at Mozilla? I think this is the much more important practical concern. Eich's ability to continue as CEO was _compromised_ - could he hire and retain talent? Would Mozilla have seen a mass quit? Could they continue to get volunteers to work on the code? The social justice warrior lynch mob can be an ugly, fickle beast, and its actions can be a double-edged sword, there's no question about it. In this case, they may have saved Mozilla (and Eich) from themselves. edit: being the public face of a company is different in kind than being another kind of worker. Its "distance" from CTO may not be large, but the "king is the king" as it were. edit 2: a couple of bigger questions here that will/should be asked. Should CEOs remain apolitical, or at least take great pains to hide their affiliations - particularly in industries with many much more liberal-minded workers? Will they after this? Interesting stat: latest Pew has 61% of Republicans under 30 supporting gay marriage. Take that as you may, but I'd go with 'excellent bellwether for society at large'.

pastProlog 13y ago

I'm not that surprised that the mind warped enough to create something like Javascript is also warped enough to have some weird backwoods Christian fundamentalist fear of homosexuals. Good riddance.

vectorpush 13y ago

Eich had the freedom to donate his hard earned money to an anti-gay cause. LGBT supporters had the freedom to make blog posts and tweets about their opinions on the matter. Eich had the freedom to stand by his position. Mozilla had the freedom to designate its CEO. Why the outrage? The system worked. The only group that had it's freedom threatened was the group of individuals targeted by the prop 8 law. Denizens of the internet could have spared Eich their ire if they were so inclined. Eich could have apologized if he were so inclined. Mozilla could have stuck by Eich if they were so inclined. Everybody acted in their own interest and Eich's resignation is a consequence of that fact.

myers 13y ago

Here's my question: What was the board thinking to put him in place? It's not as if Eich won a contest just by inventing one of the most widely distributed programming languages, there were folks who decided he was the best to lead Mozilla forward. How did they go so wrong?