7 ms·

Hate to burst your bubble, but the only thing apple has going for them is the iPhone, which is arguably a fad. The reason Rolex never goes out of style is becau

by danford 13y ago

Hate to burst your bubble, but the only thing apple has going for them is the iPhone, which is arguably a fad. The reason Rolex never goes out of style is because they never change their style, and apple is no Rolex like a lot of people seem to think. People easily forget about all the hype around the iMac g3. Sure, it changed the company, but they still have yet to over take windows. Now Android is out selling the iPhone because of the business model. No large companies would ever replace current desktops with iMacs except in specialized "labs" where they're needed (mostly for designers). Apple isn't dominating any market. They're not on servers, they're not embedded, they're not on super computers, they're not on mainframes. They're no where, but if you spend your whole life surrounded by graphic designers and programmers and hacker news, they're going to appear to be everywhere.

eropple 13y ago
Only thing Apple has going for them is the iPhone. And the iPad, which is kicking the hell out of Android tablets (to my consternation, because I'm primarily an Android user and their tablets are terrible). And the Macbook Pro, which is making pretty major inroads at leading-edge companies. A buddy of mine is working on *nix software at IBM and they asked if he wanted a Thinkpad or an MBP; that blew my mind. They don't do big iron, but they move a lot of product and very little of it is faddish. They Get It, or have Gotten It historically, and a lot of people respond well to that. They might at some point no longer Get It, but until then, saying that they only have the iPhone going for them is wishcasting.
- danford 13y ago
  You're right, how could I forget the iPad, the thing is the business model they have for all of their products is unsustainable. The iPad is doing well now, just as the iPhone did initially, but less and less people are buying the iPhone because the Android environment has had time to develop. Even chromebooks out sold mac books [1] in 2013. A lot of companies allow developers to use Linux too. The fact that people working for large tech companies are allowed to develop for *nix on a macbook is kind of irrelevant. The circle jerk on HN around apple is deplorable, but lets let the down votes commence. [1] http://www.ibtimes.com/googles-chromebook-outsells-apples-macbook-us-2013-ipad-leads-tablet-sales-1521998 http://www.ibtimes.com/googles-chromebook-outsells-apples-ma...
  - eropple 13y ago
    Are less and less people buying iPhones, or more and more people buying phones? (Not a rhetorical question, I don't know whose numbers to trust for mobile stuff.) Apple's business is not one that has to own a market to make gobsmacking amounts of money. As such I doubt they see being outsold by Chromebooks as being a serious problem; they've been being outsold in the laptop market forever and are still making yachtloads of cash.
    - wsc981 13y ago
      Sales year on year for Apple phones have increased, but at the same time, market share is slinking, since just so much more Android phones are being sold. See: http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphon...
  - gress 13y ago
    This is simply false. More and more people are buying both iPhones and iPads. And as to sustainable business models - the iTunes Ecosystem alone is a large as half of Google's entire business and is growing faster.
  - leoc 13y ago
    Eh, while it may be accurate enough to say that to a first approximation Apple is an iOS company now, I don't think that's an unsustainable thing to be by tech standards. They may not need new triumphs to be very profitable for a long time: think of the golden decade or so MS had after '95 mainly from milking its already-existing successes.
  - sbuk 13y ago
    Ah. Apple is doomed. I see.
  - 72deluxe 13y ago
    I know Chromebooks outsold MacBooks but I don't think you can compare them. Chromebooks are like disposable cameras. If they are referring to the cheapy plastic things, I wonder if people are buying them as devices to use whilst on the toilet or in areas where mugging is a risk? Most Chromebooks are glorified phone hardware. Even the one with the whizzbang screen has lousy soldered-on local storage, so it fails as a microcomputer. It essentially is a terminal with a fantastic screen. I certainly wouldn't attempt to use one to develop on (and I mean develop on, not RDP/VNC/SSH to a box elsewhere). Could I write C++ on it for multiple OSes thanks to virtualization on a Chromebook? I know my needs are niche but I don't think Chromebooks compete with MacBooks, even if they look similar-ish and one has outsold the other. Out of interest, have Kindles outsold MacBooks? Would that be the death-knell for MacBooks? Really is comparing Apples and Oranges I think.
- Nullabillity 13y ago
  > A buddy of mine is working on *nix software at IBM and they asked if he wanted a Thinkpad or an MBP; that blew my mind. Except, you know, IBM doesn't have anything to do with Thinkpad anymore, and hasn't for years.
  - eropple 13y ago
    "Except, you know," that it's a highly conservative company and offering a line developer a Mac is, in my experience, kind of weird.
    - 72deluxe 13y ago
      True, but I wonder if it is because they are both seen as "high end" laptops? I know that you can go to PC World and buy a £500 device or cheaper models but MacBooks and high-end Thinkpads have always commanded a higher location in the market. If I were to sell my MacBook and get another laptop, I think the only other option would be Thinkpads.
- 72deluxe 13y ago
  Thinkpad or Macbook? Which did he choose? Thinkpads are now Lenovo, not IBM. And MacBooks do run official Unix, so it'd make sense. Plus, he can look cool in a coffee shop :-) (I love my MacBook, but don't use it coffee shops, as an aside.) Your point about iPads is very true. My wife has an iPad and it is joy to use. I have a Motorola Xoom that I really do love using and find very very useful but the standards aren't the same. I know the Xoom is old (some would say ancient) and is easy to develop for but the iPad truly does rule the Tablet waves.
JohnBooty 13y ago
Apple isn't dominating any market. You're obviously going by the number of units sold, not the profit share. And you're not technically wrong. But isn't that a little bit like measuring the number of swings a baseball player takes instead of the number of times he gets a hit? In the PC market Apple is absolutely destroying all comers: 45% of the profit share in 2012. HP, Lenovo, Dell, Acer and Asus combine for the remaining 55%. (I couldn't find numbers for 2013) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/04/18/apples-mac-took-45-of-the-profits-in-the-pc-market/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/04/18/apples-ma... They're dominating similarly in the mobile market. http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-smartphone-profit-share-2014-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-smartphone-profit-share... I mean, if you want to say their products are crap - that's subjective and we can't argue that. But if you don't think they're doing incredibly well in their key markets, that's diametrically opposed to the truth.
- danford 13y ago
  Lambo is dominating the car market by your logic [1] [1] http://www.lambocars.com/lambonews/lamborghini_among_most_profitable_car_brands.html http://www.lambocars.com/lambonews/lamborghini_among_most_pr...
  - bananas 13y ago
    I'll get downvoted for this one but they have a similar characteristic as well: they both catch fire! I had a 2010 MBP go up in flames and an immediate colleague's one screen went phut and melted. Lambos do this too (google images)
    - 72deluxe 13y ago
      What was the 2010 MBP made from? Do the unibody ones fare better than the plastic models? Were you typing so fast that the keyboard caught fire? Are you Superman? Answers in order please.
      - bananas 13y ago
Geee 13y ago
Yeah, the business model sucks, indeed: http://bgr.com/2014/03/17/iphone-profit-share-market-share/ http://bgr.com/2014/03/17/iphone-profit-share-market-share/ The thing you miss is that lot of people buy shit if it's cheap.
oscargrouch 13y ago
heresy!! Talk badly about apple on HN! people will donwvote you to oblivion! But really.. Apple is like that competitor that start miles ahead of any competitor, but because of some draconian moves and misteps, they end loosing all of their advantages.. it happen with Microsoft.. now its happening again with Google

by danford 13y ago

eropple 13y ago

Only thing Apple has going for them is the iPhone. And the iPad, which is kicking the hell out of Android tablets (to my consternation, because I'm primarily an Android user and their tablets are terrible). And the Macbook Pro, which is making pretty major inroads at leading-edge companies. A buddy of mine is working on *nix software at IBM and they asked if he wanted a Thinkpad or an MBP; that blew my mind. They don't do big iron, but they move a lot of product and very little of it is faddish. They Get It, or have Gotten It historically, and a lot of people respond well to that. They might at some point no longer Get It, but until then, saying that they only have the iPhone going for them is wishcasting.

danford 13y ago
You're right, how could I forget the iPad, the thing is the business model they have for all of their products is unsustainable. The iPad is doing well now, just as the iPhone did initially, but less and less people are buying the iPhone because the Android environment has had time to develop. Even chromebooks out sold mac books [1] in 2013. A lot of companies allow developers to use Linux too. The fact that people working for large tech companies are allowed to develop for *nix on a macbook is kind of irrelevant. The circle jerk on HN around apple is deplorable, but lets let the down votes commence. [1] http://www.ibtimes.com/googles-chromebook-outsells-apples-macbook-us-2013-ipad-leads-tablet-sales-1521998 http://www.ibtimes.com/googles-chromebook-outsells-apples-ma...
- eropple 13y ago
  Are less and less people buying iPhones, or more and more people buying phones? (Not a rhetorical question, I don't know whose numbers to trust for mobile stuff.) Apple's business is not one that has to own a market to make gobsmacking amounts of money. As such I doubt they see being outsold by Chromebooks as being a serious problem; they've been being outsold in the laptop market forever and are still making yachtloads of cash.
  - wsc981 13y ago
    Sales year on year for Apple phones have increased, but at the same time, market share is slinking, since just so much more Android phones are being sold. See: http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphone-sales-since-3rd-quarter-2007/ http://www.statista.com/statistics/263401/global-apple-iphon...
- gress 13y ago
  This is simply false. More and more people are buying both iPhones and iPads. And as to sustainable business models - the iTunes Ecosystem alone is a large as half of Google's entire business and is growing faster.
- leoc 13y ago
  Eh, while it may be accurate enough to say that to a first approximation Apple is an iOS company now, I don't think that's an unsustainable thing to be by tech standards. They may not need new triumphs to be very profitable for a long time: think of the golden decade or so MS had after '95 mainly from milking its already-existing successes.
- sbuk 13y ago
  Ah. Apple is doomed. I see.
- 72deluxe 13y ago
  I know Chromebooks outsold MacBooks but I don't think you can compare them. Chromebooks are like disposable cameras. If they are referring to the cheapy plastic things, I wonder if people are buying them as devices to use whilst on the toilet or in areas where mugging is a risk? Most Chromebooks are glorified phone hardware. Even the one with the whizzbang screen has lousy soldered-on local storage, so it fails as a microcomputer. It essentially is a terminal with a fantastic screen. I certainly wouldn't attempt to use one to develop on (and I mean develop on, not RDP/VNC/SSH to a box elsewhere). Could I write C++ on it for multiple OSes thanks to virtualization on a Chromebook? I know my needs are niche but I don't think Chromebooks compete with MacBooks, even if they look similar-ish and one has outsold the other. Out of interest, have Kindles outsold MacBooks? Would that be the death-knell for MacBooks? Really is comparing Apples and Oranges I think.
Nullabillity 13y ago
> A buddy of mine is working on *nix software at IBM and they asked if he wanted a Thinkpad or an MBP; that blew my mind. Except, you know, IBM doesn't have anything to do with Thinkpad anymore, and hasn't for years.
- eropple 13y ago
  "Except, you know," that it's a highly conservative company and offering a line developer a Mac is, in my experience, kind of weird.
  - 72deluxe 13y ago
    True, but I wonder if it is because they are both seen as "high end" laptops? I know that you can go to PC World and buy a £500 device or cheaper models but MacBooks and high-end Thinkpads have always commanded a higher location in the market. If I were to sell my MacBook and get another laptop, I think the only other option would be Thinkpads.
72deluxe 13y ago
Thinkpad or Macbook? Which did he choose? Thinkpads are now Lenovo, not IBM. And MacBooks do run official Unix, so it'd make sense. Plus, he can look cool in a coffee shop :-) (I love my MacBook, but don't use it coffee shops, as an aside.) Your point about iPads is very true. My wife has an iPad and it is joy to use. I have a Motorola Xoom that I really do love using and find very very useful but the standards aren't the same. I know the Xoom is old (some would say ancient) and is easy to develop for but the iPad truly does rule the Tablet waves.

JohnBooty 13y ago

Apple isn't dominating any market. You're obviously going by the number of units sold, not the profit share. And you're not technically wrong. But isn't that a little bit like measuring the number of swings a baseball player takes instead of the number of times he gets a hit? In the PC market Apple is absolutely destroying all comers: 45% of the profit share in 2012. HP, Lenovo, Dell, Acer and Asus combine for the remaining 55%. (I couldn't find numbers for 2013) http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/04/18/apples-mac-took-45-of-the-profits-in-the-pc-market/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/04/18/apples-ma... They're dominating similarly in the mobile market. http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-smartphone-profit-share-2014-2 http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-smartphone-profit-share... I mean, if you want to say their products are crap - that's subjective and we can't argue that. But if you don't think they're doing incredibly well in their key markets, that's diametrically opposed to the truth.

danford 13y ago
Lambo is dominating the car market by your logic [1] [1] http://www.lambocars.com/lambonews/lamborghini_among_most_profitable_car_brands.html http://www.lambocars.com/lambonews/lamborghini_among_most_pr...
- bananas 13y ago
  I'll get downvoted for this one but they have a similar characteristic as well: they both catch fire! I had a 2010 MBP go up in flames and an immediate colleague's one screen went phut and melted. Lambos do this too (google images)
  - 72deluxe 13y ago
    What was the 2010 MBP made from? Do the unibody ones fare better than the plastic models? Were you typing so fast that the keyboard caught fire? Are you Superman? Answers in order please.
    - bananas 13y ago

Geee 13y ago

Yeah, the business model sucks, indeed: http://bgr.com/2014/03/17/iphone-profit-share-market-share/ http://bgr.com/2014/03/17/iphone-profit-share-market-share/ The thing you miss is that lot of people buy shit if it's cheap.

oscargrouch 13y ago

heresy!! Talk badly about apple on HN! people will donwvote you to oblivion! But really.. Apple is like that competitor that start miles ahead of any competitor, but because of some draconian moves and misteps, they end loosing all of their advantages.. it happen with Microsoft.. now its happening again with Google