8 ms·

Very interesting. There have also been recent studies on the effects of anesthesia (Isoflurane in particular) on depression. See: http://www.plosone.org/artic

Very interesting. There have also been recent studies on the effects of anesthesia (Isoflurane in particular) on depression. See: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0069809 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna... I thought the ketamine therapy was especially interesting in that it had good effect with relatively low doses. In the Isoflurane study they would put patients completely under (asleep? What is the technical term for being unconscious under anesthesia?) for about 15 minutes. Makes me wonder about the relation between sleep problems and depression.

noir_lord 13y ago
> Makes me wonder about the relation between sleep problems and depression. There is fairly strong evidence that sleep deprivation can trigger or exasperate depression [1]. As someone who has had chronic cyclical insomnia since my teens (17 years) in my case it has a massive effect. When I'm coming out of an insomnia phase the first couple of days where I get a proper nights sleep I feel like I'm on drugs, it's a feeling of well-being and euphoria that is hard to describe, I have limitless energy and I'm enthusiastic about all the things I love to do. When I'm in the middle of the no-sleep cycle, I struggle to do even basic tasks and anything requiring complete focus is basically ruled out, the world is a grey dreary place, summoning the energy to do anything is a major challenge. I manage my insomnia without drugs (the problem with sleeping pills in my experience is that while they do make you sleep it's not a high quality sleep and that combined with the lag from the pills means I don't feel any better with them than without) by impeccable sleep hygiene, diet and exercise and the knowledge that eventually the cycle will end. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19961/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19961/
- lutusp 13y ago
  > There is fairly strong evidence that sleep deprivation can trigger or exasperate [sic] depression ... This is one I'm seeing more and more often. The word you were after is "exacerbate". It's my hope that exasperate and exacerbate won't suffer the same fate as literally and figuratively, which now mean the same thing: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
  - hdevalence 13y ago
    Literally has been used to mean "in the strongest metaphorical sense" for close to 300 years, so I think you're beating a bit of a dead horse on that. Source: OED
    - lutusp 13y ago
      It's true that this is an old misuse. But IMHO it's still deplorable that a word and its antonym have merged into one.
      - bglazer 13y ago
        At what point does 'old misuse' become correct usage?
        lutusp 13y ago
        It happens all the time. Take "decimate" as just one example of hundreds that come to mind. It once meant to reduce by one-tenth. But through common usage it has come to mean: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decimate http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decimate "to destroy a large number of (plants, animals, people, etc.)" But for exasperate as a replacement for exacerbate, that's more of a stretch. Not to say it won't happen.
        jaykru 13y ago
        What are some of the other "hundreds" of examples that come to mind?
        lutusp 13y ago
        What's my incentive to do this? I post an interesting and relevant fact, and get downvoted. The more interesting and relevant to the topic of discussion, the more downvotes in proportion. I prefer the company of adults.
      - 13y ago
- jmhain 13y ago
  Interestingly, and although all my anecdotal evidence disagrees with this, on the short term sleep deprivation supposedly does the opposite [0]. I have trouble with insomnia as well, and my experience is basically the same as yours. If I don't get at least eight hours, the brain fog is so thick I just can't function. It doesn't make sense to me however, because many people I know can function perfectly with little to no sleep. I've been looking into supplements to improve the quality of sleep. The most promising so far is glycine, which has at least some science demonstrating its efficacy (in both sleep quality and consequent daytime performance) [1]. Some anecdotal experience from reddit also makes it seem promising [2]. Also on my list to try are ZMA and low-dose melatonin. [0] http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/an_unconventional_release_from_depression http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/an_unconventio... [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328957/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328957/ [2] http://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1a899m/what_do_people_think_of_glycine/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1a899m/what_do_...
  - noir_lord 13y ago
    I've tried different supplements before though not glycine and melatonin is not something that is easy to get in the UK. It's hard to say in the singular case whether they work as I can't rule out the placebo effect what I've found for me though is that a good diet (lots of fish and fresh vegetables mostly) has as much or more of an impact. I'll certainly look into glycine though, thanks. EDIT: I took a look at the studies (well the overviews anyway) on Glycine, fascinating reading, I've ordered some from Amazon and will see, again, many thanks :)
  - pedalpete 13y ago
    I've had insomnia my whole life (I don't say 'suffer', because sometimes I enjoy it, though pay the price the next day). I don't recommend melatonin, unless you've messed up your body clock and are trying to 'reset' when you go to sleep. ZMA is just Zing/Magnesium/B6 (I don't know why it isn't called ZMB, maybe that's too similar to zombie?). I haven't taken ZMA specifically, but I have taken all of those supplements together at the same time bumping up the levels of a multi. I wouldn't say I noticed a huge difference in sleep performance.
ebiester 13y ago
Isoflurane doesn't replace REM sleep, though. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20418293 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20418293

noir_lord 13y ago

> Makes me wonder about the relation between sleep problems and depression. There is fairly strong evidence that sleep deprivation can trigger or exasperate depression [1]. As someone who has had chronic cyclical insomnia since my teens (17 years) in my case it has a massive effect. When I'm coming out of an insomnia phase the first couple of days where I get a proper nights sleep I feel like I'm on drugs, it's a feeling of well-being and euphoria that is hard to describe, I have limitless energy and I'm enthusiastic about all the things I love to do. When I'm in the middle of the no-sleep cycle, I struggle to do even basic tasks and anything requiring complete focus is basically ruled out, the world is a grey dreary place, summoning the energy to do anything is a major challenge. I manage my insomnia without drugs (the problem with sleeping pills in my experience is that while they do make you sleep it's not a high quality sleep and that combined with the lag from the pills means I don't feel any better with them than without) by impeccable sleep hygiene, diet and exercise and the knowledge that eventually the cycle will end. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19961/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK19961/

lutusp 13y ago
> There is fairly strong evidence that sleep deprivation can trigger or exasperate [sic] depression ... This is one I'm seeing more and more often. The word you were after is "exacerbate". It's my hope that exasperate and exacerbate won't suffer the same fate as literally and figuratively, which now mean the same thing: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
- hdevalence 13y ago
  Literally has been used to mean "in the strongest metaphorical sense" for close to 300 years, so I think you're beating a bit of a dead horse on that. Source: OED
  - lutusp 13y ago
    It's true that this is an old misuse. But IMHO it's still deplorable that a word and its antonym have merged into one.
    - bglazer 13y ago
      At what point does 'old misuse' become correct usage?
      - lutusp 13y ago
        It happens all the time. Take "decimate" as just one example of hundreds that come to mind. It once meant to reduce by one-tenth. But through common usage it has come to mean: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decimate http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decimate "to destroy a large number of (plants, animals, people, etc.)" But for exasperate as a replacement for exacerbate, that's more of a stretch. Not to say it won't happen.
        jaykru 13y ago
        What are some of the other "hundreds" of examples that come to mind?
        lutusp 13y ago
        What's my incentive to do this? I post an interesting and relevant fact, and get downvoted. The more interesting and relevant to the topic of discussion, the more downvotes in proportion. I prefer the company of adults.
    - 13y ago
jmhain 13y ago
Interestingly, and although all my anecdotal evidence disagrees with this, on the short term sleep deprivation supposedly does the opposite [0]. I have trouble with insomnia as well, and my experience is basically the same as yours. If I don't get at least eight hours, the brain fog is so thick I just can't function. It doesn't make sense to me however, because many people I know can function perfectly with little to no sleep. I've been looking into supplements to improve the quality of sleep. The most promising so far is glycine, which has at least some science demonstrating its efficacy (in both sleep quality and consequent daytime performance) [1]. Some anecdotal experience from reddit also makes it seem promising [2]. Also on my list to try are ZMA and low-dose melatonin. [0] http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/an_unconventional_release_from_depression http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/mind-read/an_unconventio... [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328957/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3328957/ [2] http://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1a899m/what_do_people_think_of_glycine/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Supplements/comments/1a899m/what_do_...
- noir_lord 13y ago
  I've tried different supplements before though not glycine and melatonin is not something that is easy to get in the UK. It's hard to say in the singular case whether they work as I can't rule out the placebo effect what I've found for me though is that a good diet (lots of fish and fresh vegetables mostly) has as much or more of an impact. I'll certainly look into glycine though, thanks. EDIT: I took a look at the studies (well the overviews anyway) on Glycine, fascinating reading, I've ordered some from Amazon and will see, again, many thanks :)
- pedalpete 13y ago
  I've had insomnia my whole life (I don't say 'suffer', because sometimes I enjoy it, though pay the price the next day). I don't recommend melatonin, unless you've messed up your body clock and are trying to 'reset' when you go to sleep. ZMA is just Zing/Magnesium/B6 (I don't know why it isn't called ZMB, maybe that's too similar to zombie?). I haven't taken ZMA specifically, but I have taken all of those supplements together at the same time bumping up the levels of a multi. I wouldn't say I noticed a huge difference in sleep performance.

ebiester 13y ago

Isoflurane doesn't replace REM sleep, though. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20418293 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20418293