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The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entire parliament between locations, the amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language, and so on. The EU is obsessed with micromanaging every little detail of our lives. From regulations on fruit to banning things like light bulbs and vacuum cleaners. And the less said about the absolutely ridiculous nightmare that is "cookie law" the better. No one should be creating laws on what websites are allowed to do with cookies. Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer. I give it 5 years at the most. (See the landslide win by UKIP in the debates this week). If that doesn't happen, you can be pretty sure there will be wars in europe. Unchecked mass immigration tends to end up badly.

Karunamon 13y ago
>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.
- voicereasonish 13y ago
  > Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money. OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France." What the hell is the point of that amount of waste and traveling?
  - sgift 13y ago
    That people feel better. Many things the EU does are about the feelings of people. I know, we are all rational beings and so on, we should just stop our feelings and get on with it. But that doesn't work. And because it doesn't work we don't say "English is our language from now on. You don't want that? Sucks to be you" and because of that the parliament moves between two cities.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - voicereasonish 13y ago
      The fact that some people, in some foreign country I will never visit, feel better, isn't much comfort to me I'm afraid.
      - mkaziz 13y ago
        Why not? To them, you're just some person in a foreign country.
        voicereasonish 13y ago
        Exactly! And that's how it should be.
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        If you're wondering why all your comments are turning an ever-lightening shade of grey, it's because of uninformed, thoughtless, selfish sentiments like this. The "ME ME ME" age of politics needs to end. And in some places, it appears it's moving towards that goal.
        voicereasonish 13y ago
        I'm not wondering. I fully expected hackernews crowd to be gushingly pro-european. This view is thankfully not echoed in the UK. It's not about being selfish. It's about democracy and freedom. Imagine laws being created by people who don't even live on the same landmass as you, speak the same language, or know anything about your country or culture. Imagine if Brazil started making laws about what US citizens could do.
M2Ys4U 13y ago
> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people would stop bringing this horrendous straw-man up. Those regulations replaced a dozen separate national regulations with one single European regulation. That's good for trade and good for consumers. It's not something to bitch about. >Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer. You may be waiting a lot longer than you think.
- voicereasonish 13y ago
  > You may be waiting a lot longer than you think. No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws. There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. The public will demand we govern ourselves rather than be dictated to by some foreigners. If not, I'm sure there will be wars pretty soon...
  - claudius 13y ago
    > There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. Yeah, I certainly hope so. Britain has been helding back European integration long enough :)
    - bausson 13y ago
      As an European from the Shengen Area, I never really considered the UK a part of EU. London is 2H30 from my home (Paris), but I found going to Roma or Barcelona more easy, since I don't need any ID (and don't have to deal with customs and the induced delays). I board the train on the evening, and when I wake up I'me ready for a week-end abroad. It's also cheaper, but that can be explained by the technical feat required to create The Channel Tunnel.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
I did not suggest that actually, but I do believe the EU has contributed towards cementing peace in Europe. Certainly the EU made prosperity easier by removing the need for borders. If you think the EU is too bureaucratic and wasteful, you might be right. But just consider the alternative, if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations. You would have to negotiate bilateral treaties between 28 nations. Another good point for the EU is that it demands democratic standards from all the members.
- voicereasonish 13y ago
  > "if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations." I don't... I don't see any upside to increased centralisation and globalisation.
JonnieCache 13y ago
>money wasted in translating every document into every language How do you think google trains their translation algorithms? (They also use the UN equivalents.)

Karunamon 13y ago

>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.

voicereasonish 13y ago
> Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money. OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France." What the hell is the point of that amount of waste and traveling?
- sgift 13y ago
  That people feel better. Many things the EU does are about the feelings of people. I know, we are all rational beings and so on, we should just stop our feelings and get on with it. But that doesn't work. And because it doesn't work we don't say "English is our language from now on. You don't want that? Sucks to be you" and because of that the parliament moves between two cities.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - voicereasonish 13y ago
    The fact that some people, in some foreign country I will never visit, feel better, isn't much comfort to me I'm afraid.
    - mkaziz 13y ago
      Why not? To them, you're just some person in a foreign country.
      - voicereasonish 13y ago
        Exactly! And that's how it should be.
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      If you're wondering why all your comments are turning an ever-lightening shade of grey, it's because of uninformed, thoughtless, selfish sentiments like this. The "ME ME ME" age of politics needs to end. And in some places, it appears it's moving towards that goal.
      - voicereasonish 13y ago
        I'm not wondering. I fully expected hackernews crowd to be gushingly pro-european. This view is thankfully not echoed in the UK. It's not about being selfish. It's about democracy and freedom. Imagine laws being created by people who don't even live on the same landmass as you, speak the same language, or know anything about your country or culture. Imagine if Brazil started making laws about what US citizens could do.

M2Ys4U 13y ago

> The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous. You don't go to war with your major trading partners, it would be economic suicide. Of course, the EU isn't the only reason why there hasn't been (more) war, but it's a significant contributing factor along with organisations like NATO. >From regulations on fruit Ugh. I wish people would stop bringing this horrendous straw-man up. Those regulations replaced a dozen separate national regulations with one single European regulation. That's good for trade and good for consumers. It's not something to bitch about. >Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer. You may be waiting a lot longer than you think.

voicereasonish 13y ago
> You may be waiting a lot longer than you think. No, I won't. The public is overwhelmingly hostile, and demands a say in who is creating our laws. There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. The public will demand we govern ourselves rather than be dictated to by some foreigners. If not, I'm sure there will be wars pretty soon...
- claudius 13y ago
  > There will be an absolute landslide victory for UKIP in the may elections, and the government will have to take note. If around 80% want to withdraw from Europe, you're going to have to do what they want at some point. Yeah, I certainly hope so. Britain has been helding back European integration long enough :)
  - bausson 13y ago
    As an European from the Shengen Area, I never really considered the UK a part of EU. London is 2H30 from my home (Paris), but I found going to Roma or Barcelona more easy, since I don't need any ID (and don't have to deal with customs and the induced delays). I board the train on the evening, and when I wake up I'me ready for a week-end abroad. It's also cheaper, but that can be explained by the technical feat required to create The Channel Tunnel.

bayesianhorse 13y ago

I did not suggest that actually, but I do believe the EU has contributed towards cementing peace in Europe. Certainly the EU made prosperity easier by removing the need for borders. If you think the EU is too bureaucratic and wasteful, you might be right. But just consider the alternative, if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations. You would have to negotiate bilateral treaties between 28 nations. Another good point for the EU is that it demands democratic standards from all the members.

voicereasonish 13y ago
> "if you wanted a free trade zone and international cooperations in all sorts of areas between 28 nations." I don't... I don't see any upside to increased centralisation and globalisation.

JonnieCache 13y ago

>money wasted in translating every document into every language How do you think google trains their translation algorithms? (They also use the UN equivalents.)