14 ms·

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for c

I think the EU is getting an amazing amount of work done, if you consider that it consists of 28 nation states which went to war with each other regularly for centuries up to a couple of decades ago...

bananas 13y ago
We're probably not done yet in that case!
Systemic33 13y ago
And some of them are still culturally at war ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relation...
- mercurial 13y ago
  I don't know. Danish news always go "X is bad in Denmark. Meanwhile, X is really good in Sweden."
  - baq 13y ago
    there's a lot of 'grass is greener on the other side' in all of europe, this is probably the case here.
    - mercurial 13y ago
      True enough. Though in this specific case, grass is more likely to be covered by more now on the other side :)
    - mcv 13y ago
      And it used to be that we tried to take their grass by conquest. Now we just go there on vacation.
  - Svip 13y ago
    There used to be two ways to argue for a law proposal in Folketinget (Danish parliament): "According to science, ..." and "in Sweden, they have..."
    - Pxtl 13y ago
      As a North American, hearing that the two leading arguments are scientific basis and copying other country's successful programs makes me disgusted with my own politicians.
      - malka 13y ago
        I'm french, and I feel the same way.
- leaveyou 13y ago
  I don't know how strong are the animosities between the old enemies in the western europe but I can assure you the hungarian government and its political class in general thrives in maintaining strong animosities against all its neighbors (excepting Austria maybe) and also they are perceived (by the neighbors) as very nationalistic and arrogant (very few of their patriotic discourses fail to recall the hungarian past glory, the dominance in the area and the injustice of the Trianon) and this leads to a lot of real tensions in the area.
- bertil 13y ago
  ;) For anyone not familiar with the relationship: the two countries are closer than most neighbouring States in the US are; language is so close that people speak their own in conversation (think US vs. British English) and not only going from one country to the next is simpler and cheaper than going across London, but there is less identity checks.
- insin 13y ago
  Did you mean... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest
- Svip 13y ago
  Fun fact: People usually think that Britain and France has been most at war with one another, but Denmark and Sweden has actually been more at war (at least in terms of unique wars)[0]. Here is a non-exhaustive list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Swedish_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Swedish_war [0] The Hundred Years' War sort of ruins the statistics in terms of years at war.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - oneandoneis2 13y ago
    That's as maybe, but we hate the French more than Denmark &Sweden hate each other! :P
    - arethuza 13y ago
      Except the Scots traditionally don't hate the French ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance
      - mkingston 13y ago
        Could this then be why the English hate the Scots? In fact, do the English like anyone at all..?
        oneandoneis2 13y ago
        The English don't like any foreigners. We're not even particularly fond of the English. We're amazingly tolerant, living in peace when surrounded by people we don't like ;)
        arethuza 13y ago
        The English do not hate the Scots - and if you look at the number of English people who have houses and holiday in France they don't really hate France either....
- gvr 13y ago
  As a Swede I can honestly say that for all intents and purposes Sweden, Norway and Denmark are all the same and we love each other.
mattmanser 13y ago
You're thinking of the Cold War, the end of Colonialism and Nuclear Bombs and confusing it with something the EU did.
- madaxe_again 13y ago
  The EU was born out of the EC, which was born out of the EEC, which was born out of ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). The entire concept of the EU is that a straightforward homogenous marketplace engenders trade which in turn engenders peace, as attacking your trading partners is rarely a beneficial move. Nuclear weapons and MAD were extant before the EEC and throughout its existence, and have not played a role in the stability of Europe beyond having a common foe on the doorstep to the east. Colonialism/imperialism most certainly has not ended. Many European nations have territories dotted around the globe, many of which are still highly contentious, and the US continues to act on moral principals which fall squarely out of the big book of empire-building. The EU/EC/EEC has achieved plenty - but we humans are not accustomed to understanding accomplishments or progress which occurs on a timescale beyond our own limited lives.
  - M2Ys4U 13y ago
    >Colonialism/imperialism most certainly has not ended. Many European nations have territories dotted around the globe, many of which are still highly contentious Some of these territories are considered to be part of the European Union, resulting in the slightly amusing fact that part of South America (French Guiana) is in fact part of the EU!
    - arethuza 13y ago
      And the related trivia question about which country is in the most time zones....
    - mchaver 13y ago
      The sun never sets on the French Republic.
  - 13y ago
Ihmahr 13y ago
Agreed. Problems are now more within the states, like in spain/basque/catalonia uk/scotland, belgium, etc. and the hongarian racists, and italy-greek state corruption.
voicereasonish 13y ago
The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entire parliament between locations, the amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language, and so on. The EU is obsessed with micromanaging every little detail of our lives. From regulations on fruit to banning things like light bulbs and vacuum cleaners. And the less said about the absolutely ridiculous nightmare that is "cookie law" the better. No one should be creating laws on what websites are allowed to do with cookies. Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer. I give it 5 years at the most. (See the landslide win by UKIP in the debates this week). If that doesn't happen, you can be pretty sure there will be wars in europe. Unchecked mass immigration tends to end up badly.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  >The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.
  - voicereasonish 13y ago
    > Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money. OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France." What the hell is the point of that amount of waste and traveling?
    - 13y ago

bananas 13y ago

We're probably not done yet in that case!

Systemic33 13y ago

And some of them are still culturally at war ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark%E2%80%93Sweden_relation...

mercurial 13y ago
I don't know. Danish news always go "X is bad in Denmark. Meanwhile, X is really good in Sweden."
- baq 13y ago
  there's a lot of 'grass is greener on the other side' in all of europe, this is probably the case here.
  - mercurial 13y ago
    True enough. Though in this specific case, grass is more likely to be covered by more now on the other side :)
  - mcv 13y ago
    And it used to be that we tried to take their grass by conquest. Now we just go there on vacation.
- Svip 13y ago
  There used to be two ways to argue for a law proposal in Folketinget (Danish parliament): "According to science, ..." and "in Sweden, they have..."
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    As a North American, hearing that the two leading arguments are scientific basis and copying other country's successful programs makes me disgusted with my own politicians.
    - malka 13y ago
      I'm french, and I feel the same way.
leaveyou 13y ago
I don't know how strong are the animosities between the old enemies in the western europe but I can assure you the hungarian government and its political class in general thrives in maintaining strong animosities against all its neighbors (excepting Austria maybe) and also they are perceived (by the neighbors) as very nationalistic and arrogant (very few of their patriotic discourses fail to recall the hungarian past glory, the dominance in the area and the injustice of the Trianon) and this leads to a lot of real tensions in the area.
bertil 13y ago
;) For anyone not familiar with the relationship: the two countries are closer than most neighbouring States in the US are; language is so close that people speak their own in conversation (think US vs. British English) and not only going from one country to the next is simpler and cheaper than going across London, but there is less identity checks.
insin 13y ago
Did you mean... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovision_Song_Contest
Svip 13y ago
Fun fact: People usually think that Britain and France has been most at war with one another, but Denmark and Sweden has actually been more at war (at least in terms of unique wars)[0]. Here is a non-exhaustive list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Swedish_war http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dano-Swedish_war [0] The Hundred Years' War sort of ruins the statistics in terms of years at war.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- oneandoneis2 13y ago
  That's as maybe, but we hate the French more than Denmark &Sweden hate each other! :P
  - arethuza 13y ago
    Except the Scots traditionally don't hate the French ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_Alliance
    - mkingston 13y ago
      Could this then be why the English hate the Scots? In fact, do the English like anyone at all..?
      - oneandoneis2 13y ago
        The English don't like any foreigners. We're not even particularly fond of the English. We're amazingly tolerant, living in peace when surrounded by people we don't like ;)
      - arethuza 13y ago
        The English do not hate the Scots - and if you look at the number of English people who have houses and holiday in France they don't really hate France either....
gvr 13y ago
As a Swede I can honestly say that for all intents and purposes Sweden, Norway and Denmark are all the same and we love each other.

mattmanser 13y ago

You're thinking of the Cold War, the end of Colonialism and Nuclear Bombs and confusing it with something the EU did.

madaxe_again 13y ago
The EU was born out of the EC, which was born out of the EEC, which was born out of ECSC (European Coal and Steel Community). The entire concept of the EU is that a straightforward homogenous marketplace engenders trade which in turn engenders peace, as attacking your trading partners is rarely a beneficial move. Nuclear weapons and MAD were extant before the EEC and throughout its existence, and have not played a role in the stability of Europe beyond having a common foe on the doorstep to the east. Colonialism/imperialism most certainly has not ended. Many European nations have territories dotted around the globe, many of which are still highly contentious, and the US continues to act on moral principals which fall squarely out of the big book of empire-building. The EU/EC/EEC has achieved plenty - but we humans are not accustomed to understanding accomplishments or progress which occurs on a timescale beyond our own limited lives.
- M2Ys4U 13y ago
  >Colonialism/imperialism most certainly has not ended. Many European nations have territories dotted around the globe, many of which are still highly contentious Some of these territories are considered to be part of the European Union, resulting in the slightly amusing fact that part of South America (French Guiana) is in fact part of the EU!
  - arethuza 13y ago
    And the related trivia question about which country is in the most time zones....
  - mchaver 13y ago
    The sun never sets on the French Republic.
- 13y ago

Ihmahr 13y ago

Agreed. Problems are now more within the states, like in spain/basque/catalonia uk/scotland, belgium, etc. and the hongarian racists, and italy-greek state corruption.

voicereasonish 13y ago

The EU has only existed for a couple of decades. To suggest that the EU is a reason we haven't had any wars recently is ridiculous, yet it gets trotted out time and time again by pro europeans. It's as scientific as saying vaccinations probably cause autism. Also, the EU is not getting much useful done considering the millions that pour into it daily. The level of waste and bureaucracy is staggering. Moving the entire parliament between locations, the amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language, and so on. The EU is obsessed with micromanaging every little detail of our lives. From regulations on fruit to banning things like light bulbs and vacuum cleaners. And the less said about the absolutely ridiculous nightmare that is "cookie law" the better. No one should be creating laws on what websites are allowed to do with cookies. Thankfully the UK will not be part of the EU for too much longer. I give it 5 years at the most. (See the landslide win by UKIP in the debates this week). If that doesn't happen, you can be pretty sure there will be wars in europe. Unchecked mass immigration tends to end up badly.

Karunamon 13y ago
>The amount of money wasted in translating every document into every language alone is idiotic. Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? As someone from the US, some nanny-statism I dislike aside, I am very, very jealous of what the EU's getting done. They don't let corporations walk all over them, possible waste and bureaucracy issues aside.
- voicereasonish 13y ago
  > Because fuck those people who don't speak a certain language, amirite? No, because it shows how idiotic the EU is to start with. Trying to create laws that fit all countries, and then translating them into every language is just a silly waste of money. OK, another example for you: The parliament MOVES from Brussels to Strasburg EACH MONTH!!! (From wikipedia) - "Each month, the EP moves back and forth to meet the EU obligation to hold meetings also in France." What the hell is the point of that amount of waste and traveling?
  - 13y ago