8 ms·

Never understood the fixation with the start menu. You start up metro and you are greeted with all those tiles- that is the new Start Menu. Why is that so confu

Never understood the fixation with the start menu. You start up metro and you are greeted with all those tiles- that is the new Start Menu. Why is that so confusing?

jamesaguilar 13y ago
It's not confusing. It's unnecessary and difficult to navigate with a mouse.
- tdicola 13y ago
  Also very annoying to be thrown out of your app when you just want to run a calculator or something small. Even more annoying when that calculator has to run full screen (or you have to waste time snapping it to some side).
  - stackcollision 13y ago
    I haven't actually used Windows 8 because I've heard it's so terrible. What I don't understand is this: > In the future, all of Microsoft’s Universal Windows apps will also run in a window. What does this mean? Are you telling me that every program I run in Windows 8 is full screen? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The OS is called WINDOWS.
    - vertex-four 13y ago
      Every Metro app is full-screen, every normal Windows app runs in the desktop. It's remarkably annoying to have both paradigms forced on you.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    When I want a calculator, I type: Windows Key -> "calc" -> Enter Viola, the classic Windows calculator.
    - mullingitover 13y ago
      Even easier: use the url bar as a calculator. Google has handled math as a seach for a while now, and it's pretty good [1]. No need to leave the browser. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=y%3Dx%5E2&oq=y%3Dx%5E2 https://www.google.com/search?q=y%3Dx%5E2&oq=y%3Dx%5E2
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Sure, but one is not always in the browser ;)
- adamwong246 13y ago
  True, while metro is really quite nice on a tablet, it is downright terrible with a mouse. I think this could be relieved by scaling down all the tiles on a mouse-and-keyboard setup. But to me, thats an entirely different concern. It's frustrating that most users, of any platform, will simply scream and give up whenever there's a change in their routine.
benjohnson 13y ago
For me, there's no sense of order to the tiles - it's like walking into a cluttered room. Sure - you'd get used to where things were, but the initial reaction for me was of shock.
- adamwong246 13y ago
  I actually like this. By removing the tree structure of the traditional menu, you allow the machine to do it's best to populate the screen with tiles it predicts are useful. Instead of forcing everything into a specific box, let the OS conform to the users history.
  - vertex-four 13y ago
    What? It never did that when I used it.
    - adamwong246 13y ago
      Sorry forgot to mention that idea is a hypothetical use case.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - iaskwhy 13y ago
    I'm not sure this is something good though. Can you imagine if the things on your kitchen moved around from place to place without you knowing exactly what was happening? Maybe it's a good idea to let the users organise their apps their own way (or at least allow that for those that care about it).
  - vacri 13y ago
    This was a sizeable failure when they hid menu items in Office based on predictions on what the user wanted.
- diydsp 13y ago
  And I'll add that it drove me nuts to see random, popcorn-like activity amongst the tiles. I kept trying to find "control panel" to add a second monitor, for example, but one of those tiles spontaneously showed me a video of an fscking carnival in Rio! Then, another flashed a bikini babe in Miami. Then, another flashed a severe weather warning on another continent... It was like being in the control room of a news station! Pretty like a Christmas tree or fireworks, but *first I have to help my girlfriend set up her computer to write her dissertation."
leddt 13y ago
The main complaint I think is the context switch. You go from desktop-world to metro-land and back again. I think the new update will go a LONG way to reduce (or eliminate) these problems. The other major enhancement in my opinion is they made the taskbar accessible from metro apps.
- adamwong246 13y ago
  Yeah. 2 totally different experiences in one OS? That reeks of design-by-committee.
- giulianob 13y ago
  You can now set the Metro background to the same background as the desktop. It's a small detail that has made the experience much less jarring for me.
overgard 13y ago
Its not so much confusing as it is useless and annoying. It's just a really inefficient and wasteful design for a desktop OS. Basically, most windows users really liked the windows 7 start menu, and they replaced it with something that has no tangible upside and a lot of downsides.
- adamwong246 13y ago
  I think this concern could be addressed. Simply scale down the tiles, which is the greatest unused aspect of metro. Those tiles can be big and touchable in a touch device and small and efficient on a non-touch device.
  - vertex-four 13y ago
    It's still full-screen and lacks any of the visual context of the desktop. Something like GNOME3's fullscreen Activities screen is better; when you open it up, it has little mini-screenshots of all your open windows, and you're not losing things like the taskbar (because it doesn't have one). You still have the top bar, which ties it into the system. Opening the Windows 8 Start screen loses all the visual context - your taskbar disappears, your windows disappear, there's nothing to tie it into the desktop, it feels like an entirely different system from the one you were using a second ago. And that's before the fact that how you interact with it is entirely different from how you interact with a desktop app, which is the final wedge.
    - adamwong246 13y ago
      But that's a failure of the split-experience, not metro itself.
      - vertex-four 13y ago
        Sure, but they can't drop support for everything built over the past couple of decades just to have a new interface, so it is the fault of introducing Metro into Windows 8. To get around the problem, they could've had plenty of integration from the start - having the taskbar throughout Metro would be a brilliant start, and something familiar. Luckily, they're integrating Metro into the desktop properly now, so the entire system will be usable.
wvenable 13y ago
My father-in-law resorted to navigating to Program Files to launch programs. Clearly there are some serious usability to discoverability problems if a normal user can figure that out but can't figure out the start menu.
macspoofing 13y ago
My issues: 1) It's not that great for mouse/keyboard. 2) Having both Metro and Classic feels very disjointed. You get thrown into either depending on which application you open.
- toxicityj 13y ago
  #2 has been my biggest issue with Win8 since beta. One of the first things I noticed was how weird it felt constantly switching between the two UIs. I could probably adapt to a metro-only UI (Lord knows I'd throw a fit along the way and it would take forever), but there is ZERO incentive to use it when the classic UI is there.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I actually like "Metro Start Menu" better than "Start Menu" for the keyboard. Put simply, "Start Menu" is a tree. Lots of diving into nodes and scrolling up and down. Conceptually convenient and easy with a mouse, but the 2D grid in Metro is more convenient with just a keyboard.
  - stan_rogers 13y ago
    The up/down (navigate vertically in a list) and left/right (enter/leave submenus) arrow keys (which worked on the tree going back to Win95) were hard? Conceptually grouping applications/utilities (sometimes across different task groups) is easier in a 2D tiled environment? Searching obviates discoverability? Sorry, but I don't buy any of it. It was not difficult to drive with the keyboard before and it's no easier now - but a lot has been lost in the transition.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      I never used the word "hard". I know that the arrow keys can be used to navigate the start menu (how else would I navigate the start menu using the keyboard? Which is clearly what I am talking about), but it has always been more keystrokes to get around the tree-menu than to get around Metro's homescreen. Is 10 keystrokes instead of 5 keystrokes "hard"? Of course not. I'm not a paraplegic. Notice I used the word "convenient".
adrr 13y ago
People like the start menu over a tile based system full screen solution. Apple tried to do the same thing with launchpad, i have yet to see anyone use it.
arjie 13y ago
Personally, I feel overloaded with the full screen start menu. Many times I have gone to the start menu and then just reflexively hit Win + D immediately. Some times I completely forget what I wanted and have to return to context to figure out what I wanted. Fortunately, I don't use Windows that much so I just cope with it when I do but I always dread booting it. I don't use it because I want it. And I swear I gave it more than an honest chance. For months, I told myself that it wasn't bad and I just needed to get used to it. I wanted to like it because it was an exciting new interface, but it couldn't be done. I can't stand it.

Never understood the fixation with the start menu. You start up metro and you are greeted with all those tiles- that is the new Start Menu. Why is that so confusing?

jamesaguilar 13y ago

It's not confusing. It's unnecessary and difficult to navigate with a mouse.

tdicola 13y ago
Also very annoying to be thrown out of your app when you just want to run a calculator or something small. Even more annoying when that calculator has to run full screen (or you have to waste time snapping it to some side).
- stackcollision 13y ago
  I haven't actually used Windows 8 because I've heard it's so terrible. What I don't understand is this: > In the future, all of Microsoft’s Universal Windows apps will also run in a window. What does this mean? Are you telling me that every program I run in Windows 8 is full screen? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The OS is called WINDOWS.
  - vertex-four 13y ago
    Every Metro app is full-screen, every normal Windows app runs in the desktop. It's remarkably annoying to have both paradigms forced on you.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  When I want a calculator, I type: Windows Key -> "calc" -> Enter Viola, the classic Windows calculator.
  - mullingitover 13y ago
    Even easier: use the url bar as a calculator. Google has handled math as a seach for a while now, and it's pretty good [1]. No need to leave the browser. [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=y%3Dx%5E2&oq=y%3Dx%5E2 https://www.google.com/search?q=y%3Dx%5E2&oq=y%3Dx%5E2
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Sure, but one is not always in the browser ;)
adamwong246 13y ago
True, while metro is really quite nice on a tablet, it is downright terrible with a mouse. I think this could be relieved by scaling down all the tiles on a mouse-and-keyboard setup. But to me, thats an entirely different concern. It's frustrating that most users, of any platform, will simply scream and give up whenever there's a change in their routine.

benjohnson 13y ago

For me, there's no sense of order to the tiles - it's like walking into a cluttered room. Sure - you'd get used to where things were, but the initial reaction for me was of shock.

adamwong246 13y ago
I actually like this. By removing the tree structure of the traditional menu, you allow the machine to do it's best to populate the screen with tiles it predicts are useful. Instead of forcing everything into a specific box, let the OS conform to the users history.
- vertex-four 13y ago
  What? It never did that when I used it.
  - adamwong246 13y ago
    Sorry forgot to mention that idea is a hypothetical use case.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- iaskwhy 13y ago
  I'm not sure this is something good though. Can you imagine if the things on your kitchen moved around from place to place without you knowing exactly what was happening? Maybe it's a good idea to let the users organise their apps their own way (or at least allow that for those that care about it).
- vacri 13y ago
  This was a sizeable failure when they hid menu items in Office based on predictions on what the user wanted.
diydsp 13y ago
And I'll add that it drove me nuts to see random, popcorn-like activity amongst the tiles. I kept trying to find "control panel" to add a second monitor, for example, but one of those tiles spontaneously showed me a video of an fscking carnival in Rio! Then, another flashed a bikini babe in Miami. Then, another flashed a severe weather warning on another continent... It was like being in the control room of a news station! Pretty like a Christmas tree or fireworks, but *first I have to help my girlfriend set up her computer to write her dissertation."

leddt 13y ago

The main complaint I think is the context switch. You go from desktop-world to metro-land and back again. I think the new update will go a LONG way to reduce (or eliminate) these problems. The other major enhancement in my opinion is they made the taskbar accessible from metro apps.

adamwong246 13y ago
Yeah. 2 totally different experiences in one OS? That reeks of design-by-committee.
giulianob 13y ago
You can now set the Metro background to the same background as the desktop. It's a small detail that has made the experience much less jarring for me.

overgard 13y ago

Its not so much confusing as it is useless and annoying. It's just a really inefficient and wasteful design for a desktop OS. Basically, most windows users really liked the windows 7 start menu, and they replaced it with something that has no tangible upside and a lot of downsides.

adamwong246 13y ago
I think this concern could be addressed. Simply scale down the tiles, which is the greatest unused aspect of metro. Those tiles can be big and touchable in a touch device and small and efficient on a non-touch device.
- vertex-four 13y ago
  It's still full-screen and lacks any of the visual context of the desktop. Something like GNOME3's fullscreen Activities screen is better; when you open it up, it has little mini-screenshots of all your open windows, and you're not losing things like the taskbar (because it doesn't have one). You still have the top bar, which ties it into the system. Opening the Windows 8 Start screen loses all the visual context - your taskbar disappears, your windows disappear, there's nothing to tie it into the desktop, it feels like an entirely different system from the one you were using a second ago. And that's before the fact that how you interact with it is entirely different from how you interact with a desktop app, which is the final wedge.
  - adamwong246 13y ago
    But that's a failure of the split-experience, not metro itself.
    - vertex-four 13y ago
      Sure, but they can't drop support for everything built over the past couple of decades just to have a new interface, so it is the fault of introducing Metro into Windows 8. To get around the problem, they could've had plenty of integration from the start - having the taskbar throughout Metro would be a brilliant start, and something familiar. Luckily, they're integrating Metro into the desktop properly now, so the entire system will be usable.

wvenable 13y ago

My father-in-law resorted to navigating to Program Files to launch programs. Clearly there are some serious usability to discoverability problems if a normal user can figure that out but can't figure out the start menu.

macspoofing 13y ago

My issues: 1) It's not that great for mouse/keyboard. 2) Having both Metro and Classic feels very disjointed. You get thrown into either depending on which application you open.

toxicityj 13y ago
#2 has been my biggest issue with Win8 since beta. One of the first things I noticed was how weird it felt constantly switching between the two UIs. I could probably adapt to a metro-only UI (Lord knows I'd throw a fit along the way and it would take forever), but there is ZERO incentive to use it when the classic UI is there.
sliverstorm 13y ago
I actually like "Metro Start Menu" better than "Start Menu" for the keyboard. Put simply, "Start Menu" is a tree. Lots of diving into nodes and scrolling up and down. Conceptually convenient and easy with a mouse, but the 2D grid in Metro is more convenient with just a keyboard.
- stan_rogers 13y ago
  The up/down (navigate vertically in a list) and left/right (enter/leave submenus) arrow keys (which worked on the tree going back to Win95) were hard? Conceptually grouping applications/utilities (sometimes across different task groups) is easier in a 2D tiled environment? Searching obviates discoverability? Sorry, but I don't buy any of it. It was not difficult to drive with the keyboard before and it's no easier now - but a lot has been lost in the transition.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I never used the word "hard". I know that the arrow keys can be used to navigate the start menu (how else would I navigate the start menu using the keyboard? Which is clearly what I am talking about), but it has always been more keystrokes to get around the tree-menu than to get around Metro's homescreen. Is 10 keystrokes instead of 5 keystrokes "hard"? Of course not. I'm not a paraplegic. Notice I used the word "convenient".

adrr 13y ago

People like the start menu over a tile based system full screen solution. Apple tried to do the same thing with launchpad, i have yet to see anyone use it.

arjie 13y ago

Personally, I feel overloaded with the full screen start menu. Many times I have gone to the start menu and then just reflexively hit Win + D immediately. Some times I completely forget what I wanted and have to return to context to figure out what I wanted. Fortunately, I don't use Windows that much so I just cope with it when I do but I always dread booting it. I don't use it because I want it. And I swear I gave it more than an honest chance. For months, I told myself that it wasn't bad and I just needed to get used to it. I wanted to like it because it was an exciting new interface, but it couldn't be done. I can't stand it.