4 ms·

Slavery had economical consequences that aren't present in the current debate. Slaves weren't just being denied rights, but they were being exploited for a prof

Slavery had economical consequences that aren't present in the current debate. Slaves weren't just being denied rights, but they were being exploited for a profit. Visitation rights, marriage & tax benefits are relevant concerns in this debate but comparing it to slavery really glosses over how terrible slavery actually was.

byuu 13y ago
I see it as the painfully slow march of human progress. Genocide was worse than slavery, which was worse than internment, which was worse than misogyny, which was worse than segregation, which was worse than anti-miscegenation, which was worse than marriage inequality (as you could be jailed for it in certain states.) Marriage inequality is certainly not as bad as slavery, but it is definitely the prevailing major civil rights issue of our time, at least in the US. And once it's resolved, there will be a new rights issue that commands a majority of interest: whether that be transgender rights, immigrant rights, or something else. To say that other things were worse, and diminish the importance of current issues, is to diminish the great march of progress we are currently enjoying.
- joelrunyon 13y ago
  I'm not that things were worse & this isn't important. That's not what the parent commenter said or what I was refuting. He compared it directly to slavery & that comparison / analogy is a poor one.
sjwright 13y ago
I did not mean to imply that the issues were of equal consequence, only that they are issues of the same type.
headShrinker 13y ago
As you said, The money was a major motivating factor in the slave trade, and it is not in the marriage equality battle. The money is not a motivating factor in preventing marriage equality. The shared major motivating factor is arguable, 'hate'. There aren't huge plantations at stake, make no mistake there is big money involved. Social security, inheritance, and real-estate are just a few of the issues making sure gays are leaving billions on the table. Ultimately, the currently enforced laws favor the majority; straight people. Marriage equality is sub issue of a massive human rights epidemic which we aren't directly addressing in this thread. The current CEO actively supports organizations which make the epidemic all the more dire for people in many areas of the world. While gays in the US enjoy relative freedom, it is illegal and punishable by death to be gay in 15 countries, and just illegal with life sentence in a dozen more. During every major recent genocide, gays where almost always highly targeted for killing in the most heinous ways; just to name a few; during US slavery, WW II, and African Apartheid. Just as slavery continues around the world, so does the merciless torture and killing of gays. While we can pull a segment of American history and say with impunity, 'definitely more blacks died in miserable conditions with horrible treatment and torture', gays have had a worldwide and human history long story that nearly matches the brutality, just not the shear numbers. While our politicians argue about where gay wedding can take place, this is just one of the final chapters in a very long story about a fight just to exist. To characterize this issue as just a visitation rights, marriage and tax benefits issue, as you say, 'really glosses over how terrible [homophobia through out history] actually was.'

byuu 13y ago

I see it as the painfully slow march of human progress. Genocide was worse than slavery, which was worse than internment, which was worse than misogyny, which was worse than segregation, which was worse than anti-miscegenation, which was worse than marriage inequality (as you could be jailed for it in certain states.) Marriage inequality is certainly not as bad as slavery, but it is definitely the prevailing major civil rights issue of our time, at least in the US. And once it's resolved, there will be a new rights issue that commands a majority of interest: whether that be transgender rights, immigrant rights, or something else. To say that other things were worse, and diminish the importance of current issues, is to diminish the great march of progress we are currently enjoying.

joelrunyon 13y ago
I'm not that things were worse & this isn't important. That's not what the parent commenter said or what I was refuting. He compared it directly to slavery & that comparison / analogy is a poor one.

sjwright 13y ago

I did not mean to imply that the issues were of equal consequence, only that they are issues of the same type.

headShrinker 13y ago

As you said, The money was a major motivating factor in the slave trade, and it is not in the marriage equality battle. The money is not a motivating factor in preventing marriage equality. The shared major motivating factor is arguable, 'hate'. There aren't huge plantations at stake, make no mistake there is big money involved. Social security, inheritance, and real-estate are just a few of the issues making sure gays are leaving billions on the table. Ultimately, the currently enforced laws favor the majority; straight people. Marriage equality is sub issue of a massive human rights epidemic which we aren't directly addressing in this thread. The current CEO actively supports organizations which make the epidemic all the more dire for people in many areas of the world. While gays in the US enjoy relative freedom, it is illegal and punishable by death to be gay in 15 countries, and just illegal with life sentence in a dozen more. During every major recent genocide, gays where almost always highly targeted for killing in the most heinous ways; just to name a few; during US slavery, WW II, and African Apartheid. Just as slavery continues around the world, so does the merciless torture and killing of gays. While we can pull a segment of American history and say with impunity, 'definitely more blacks died in miserable conditions with horrible treatment and torture', gays have had a worldwide and human history long story that nearly matches the brutality, just not the shear numbers. While our politicians argue about where gay wedding can take place, this is just one of the final chapters in a very long story about a fight just to exist. To characterize this issue as just a visitation rights, marriage and tax benefits issue, as you say, 'really glosses over how terrible [homophobia through out history] actually was.'