3 ms·

It says a lot when you have to point to Indonesian homophobes to support your position.

vacri 13y ago
The article mentions Indonesia because that's where some publicly-acknowledged contributors are. Your comment mentions Indonesia like it's a backwater to be looked down on. Would your comment have been different if the other homophobes were local to Eich? In defence of homosexual marriage, you seem happy to promote racism.
parennoob 13y ago
Probably falling into the trap of combating snark with snark here, but it says a lot about you that you are pointing to people in Indonesia who don't believe in gay marriage as some kind of loony, fringe, obscure group whose name is not even worth invoking in a debate. Tolerance means trying to accept a wide range of people and beliefs. And gay marriage, unfortunately, is against that of a lot of people. Whether we try to get them fired, or, in the Gandhian way, try to use love to get across our message peacefully, says a lot about our tolerance in the first place. [Edit: Also, now imagine if a bunch of people of Indonesian extraction started a "Stop Pete XXXXX from hosting Y event because he is racist!" (where "X", "Y" is stuff mentioned in your profile/username) petition. How would you feel then? I think the same feelings, only to a far greater extent, are the ones going through Eich's mind. It's hard to put yourself in the mindset of someone you instinctively dislike, but try it.]
- dang 13y ago
  Probably falling into the trap of combating snark with snark here, but it says a lot about you Yes. Please don't combat snark with snark on HN. It never helps, only provokes.
  - parennoob 13y ago
    Sorry, duly noted; and I also apologize to 'peteforde for said snark above.
gojomo 13y ago
Mozilla's mission requires it to serve, and engage into its projects, countries that are still many decades from matching the urban/tech/rich-world consensus on gay rights. Indonesia is the world's 4th largest country by population, and the most-democratic of all majority-Muslim countries. It's important. And other countries that should be giant parts of open web projects are in similar positions. Should open-web advocates from these countries, who in their personal lives express the same sort of political views on marriage as Obama did as recently as his 2008 campaign, be excluded from leadership positions at Mozilla? How deep should the proposed purge go?
- MichaelGG 13y ago
  Islam also has death as a penalty for apostasy. If Eich supported that, would it be OK because it's a "personal view"? I do agree with you though, that Mozilla's work is more important than civil rights. Eventually, it would seem that all people will give up poor, invalid beliefs. It's a near certainty as technology progresses and definitely disproves religions. However an open web is in quite the opposite position.

vacri 13y ago

The article mentions Indonesia because that's where some publicly-acknowledged contributors are. Your comment mentions Indonesia like it's a backwater to be looked down on. Would your comment have been different if the other homophobes were local to Eich? In defence of homosexual marriage, you seem happy to promote racism.

parennoob 13y ago

Probably falling into the trap of combating snark with snark here, but it says a lot about you that you are pointing to people in Indonesia who don't believe in gay marriage as some kind of loony, fringe, obscure group whose name is not even worth invoking in a debate. Tolerance means trying to accept a wide range of people and beliefs. And gay marriage, unfortunately, is against that of a lot of people. Whether we try to get them fired, or, in the Gandhian way, try to use love to get across our message peacefully, says a lot about our tolerance in the first place. [Edit: Also, now imagine if a bunch of people of Indonesian extraction started a "Stop Pete XXXXX from hosting Y event because he is racist!" (where "X", "Y" is stuff mentioned in your profile/username) petition. How would you feel then? I think the same feelings, only to a far greater extent, are the ones going through Eich's mind. It's hard to put yourself in the mindset of someone you instinctively dislike, but try it.]

dang 13y ago
Probably falling into the trap of combating snark with snark here, but it says a lot about you Yes. Please don't combat snark with snark on HN. It never helps, only provokes.
- parennoob 13y ago
  Sorry, duly noted; and I also apologize to 'peteforde for said snark above.

gojomo 13y ago

Mozilla's mission requires it to serve, and engage into its projects, countries that are still many decades from matching the urban/tech/rich-world consensus on gay rights. Indonesia is the world's 4th largest country by population, and the most-democratic of all majority-Muslim countries. It's important. And other countries that should be giant parts of open web projects are in similar positions. Should open-web advocates from these countries, who in their personal lives express the same sort of political views on marriage as Obama did as recently as his 2008 campaign, be excluded from leadership positions at Mozilla? How deep should the proposed purge go?

MichaelGG 13y ago
Islam also has death as a penalty for apostasy. If Eich supported that, would it be OK because it's a "personal view"? I do agree with you though, that Mozilla's work is more important than civil rights. Eventually, it would seem that all people will give up poor, invalid beliefs. It's a near certainty as technology progresses and definitely disproves religions. However an open web is in quite the opposite position.