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The problem with the classic argument of "whether or not it is worth paying a hefty premium to go to an elite school" is that it discounts the impact of intangi

The problem with the classic argument of "whether or not it is worth paying a hefty premium to go to an elite school" is that it discounts the impact of intangibles, such as positive peer influence and brand value. I say yes. The effect is even more pronounced in highly competitive industries like finance. I've found that an overwhelming majority of successful recent grads in that industry (2-3 yr exp analysts making $300,000+/year) are top 20 grads. I doubt the average 18-22 yr old is going to exhaust the knowledge that their professor can impart, but you put an above average student at a school where he's rubbing shoulders with future entrepreneurs, politicians and thought leaders there's no doubt that it will increase his likelihood of success. So back to the question: Is it worth paying $200,000(over 4 years at Skull and Bones College over paying $10000 at Big State U? In many circumstances, yes. And yes--there are always exceptions to this rule but the discussion is about the overall trend not particular instances.

alaskamiller 19y ago
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. That Harvard grad looking for a job at BigPapa Stearns might get the job because he happens to know the secret handshake or presents himself as trustworthy but in reality, at worse, he might be an idiot, and, at best, he's simply good enough to do the job. But BigPapa Stearns only hires Harvard grads because no one was ever fired for hiring Harvard grads. In the end, if you don't make your life an empty pursuit for the almighty dollar that consumes 16 hours of your days for a good 3 or 4 years before succumbing to that coke addiction and none of this would matter. A Savile Row bespoke suit doesn't necessarily make you a better man, or a hero.
- caveman82 19y ago
  So all Harvard grads in big i-banks work 16 hour days and are coke addicts? Let's put something else in context, one could make the argument that a majority of college grads from any school embark on "a journey of empty pursuits for the almighty dollar...". I hardly think this is symptomatic of going to a top20 school, but how much blind ambition a person has.
  - alaskamiller 19y ago
    Hyperbole isn't going to work on you, I see. That's the point that Godin makes.
aantix 19y ago
Along these same lines, Malcolm Gladwell examined the so-called "advantages" of going to an Ivy League school in his piece "Getting In". http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_10_10_a_admissions.html http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_10_10_a_admissions.html Some would probably argue that going to a big name school allows you to make better connections, etc, thus resulting in a higher income. But as pointed out in the Gladwell article, this just isn't the case. While it's easy to point out the kid that went to MIT is making more than the kid that went to state college, this just isn't a proper comparison. From the article... "As a hypothetical example, take the University of Pennsylvania and Penn State, which are two schools a lot of students choose between," Krueger said. "One is Ivy, one is a state school. Penn is much more highly selective. If you compare the students who go to those two schools, the ones who go to Penn have higher incomes. But let's look at those who got into both types of schools, some of whom chose Penn and some of whom chose Penn State. Within that set it doesn't seem to matter whether you go to the more selective school. Now, you would think that the more ambitious student is the one who would choose to go to Penn, and the ones choosing to go to Penn State might be a little less confident in their abilities or have a little lower family income, and both of those factors would point to people doing worse later on. But they don't." The moral of the story is that if you're a hard working individual, connections and money are going to follow regardless of where you go to school.
- caveman82 19y ago
  The problem with your argument is that you don't isolate factors when arguing your point. I'm not arguing that there aren't other factors that make a person successful. I'm saying that all things equal, the influence of one's surroundings can have a significant positive effect on a persons chance of succeeding.
aswanson 19y ago
This matters in industries where they don't have an objective metric for skill, like finance, business, law, etc. The only thing they can go off is a school name and grades. In more objective enterprises, like starting a tech company, for instance, the only thing that matters is objective competence and execution. Almost no tech company, scientific discovery, or novel mathematical proof comes out of a classroom. For subjects like biz and finance that don't focus on exact answers, what else do you have to go off of? But who would major in something like that anyway?

alaskamiller 19y ago

It's a self fulfilling prophecy. That Harvard grad looking for a job at BigPapa Stearns might get the job because he happens to know the secret handshake or presents himself as trustworthy but in reality, at worse, he might be an idiot, and, at best, he's simply good enough to do the job. But BigPapa Stearns only hires Harvard grads because no one was ever fired for hiring Harvard grads. In the end, if you don't make your life an empty pursuit for the almighty dollar that consumes 16 hours of your days for a good 3 or 4 years before succumbing to that coke addiction and none of this would matter. A Savile Row bespoke suit doesn't necessarily make you a better man, or a hero.

caveman82 19y ago
So all Harvard grads in big i-banks work 16 hour days and are coke addicts? Let's put something else in context, one could make the argument that a majority of college grads from any school embark on "a journey of empty pursuits for the almighty dollar...". I hardly think this is symptomatic of going to a top20 school, but how much blind ambition a person has.
- alaskamiller 19y ago
  Hyperbole isn't going to work on you, I see. That's the point that Godin makes.

aantix 19y ago

Along these same lines, Malcolm Gladwell examined the so-called "advantages" of going to an Ivy League school in his piece "Getting In". http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_10_10_a_admissions.html http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_10_10_a_admissions.html Some would probably argue that going to a big name school allows you to make better connections, etc, thus resulting in a higher income. But as pointed out in the Gladwell article, this just isn't the case. While it's easy to point out the kid that went to MIT is making more than the kid that went to state college, this just isn't a proper comparison. From the article... "As a hypothetical example, take the University of Pennsylvania and Penn State, which are two schools a lot of students choose between," Krueger said. "One is Ivy, one is a state school. Penn is much more highly selective. If you compare the students who go to those two schools, the ones who go to Penn have higher incomes. But let's look at those who got into both types of schools, some of whom chose Penn and some of whom chose Penn State. Within that set it doesn't seem to matter whether you go to the more selective school. Now, you would think that the more ambitious student is the one who would choose to go to Penn, and the ones choosing to go to Penn State might be a little less confident in their abilities or have a little lower family income, and both of those factors would point to people doing worse later on. But they don't." The moral of the story is that if you're a hard working individual, connections and money are going to follow regardless of where you go to school.

caveman82 19y ago
The problem with your argument is that you don't isolate factors when arguing your point. I'm not arguing that there aren't other factors that make a person successful. I'm saying that all things equal, the influence of one's surroundings can have a significant positive effect on a persons chance of succeeding.

aswanson 19y ago

This matters in industries where they don't have an objective metric for skill, like finance, business, law, etc. The only thing they can go off is a school name and grades. In more objective enterprises, like starting a tech company, for instance, the only thing that matters is objective competence and execution. Almost no tech company, scientific discovery, or novel mathematical proof comes out of a classroom. For subjects like biz and finance that don't focus on exact answers, what else do you have to go off of? But who would major in something like that anyway?