5 ms·

While I don't agree with the stop & frisk policy, let's all be honest: racial stereotypes exist for a reason, fair or not. This is a treatment of a symptom, n

While I don't agree with the stop & frisk policy, let's all be honest: racial stereotypes exist for a reason, fair or not. This is a treatment of a symptom, not of the cause.

paulannesley 13y ago
Uh… what? Maybe you accidentally hit reply before elaborating on “racial stereotypes exist for a reason”.
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  Understand that stereotypes may persist because they have a root in culture. E.g. imagine some subculture in a city gets in trouble routinely. To a law officer, soon everybody that looks like that seems likely to be an offender. After a while it becomes ingrained - a feud if you will - between law enforcement and the folks getting profiled. Why does it persist? Because culture == behavior. Because profiling works, for better or for worse.
  - bentcorner 13y ago
    Looking through some of the data shows that blacks are overrepresented in crime[1] compared to their proportion of the population[2]. What would be the right thing to do? I think that everyone should be treated equally and all have the same rights as anyone else. Given the data I sympathize with a police force that resorts to profiling. There are likely larger social issues at play here, we are seeing symptoms of other problems. [1] http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity_jan_to_jun_2013.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_plan... [2] http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html
    - scotth 13y ago
      Are they over-represented in crime when considering their class as well?
      - bentcorner 13y ago
        That's a great next question, unfortunately I don't have the data at hand to give you a good answer. I casually looked for some of this (read: spent a few minutes) and anything I could put together would be an amalgamation of several different sources of information and I'd likely make incorrect inferences from it.
Kluny 13y ago
"Let's be honest"? Don't involve the rest of us in your disgusting statements.
EricaJoy 13y ago
Please share the reason.
kjs3 13y ago
Translation: Minorities make me uncomfortable, so I'm for the police keeping them in their place.
- deedubaya 13y ago
  Translation: BURN THE WITCH! You might note that the first thing my comment stated is that I didn't agree with the whole stop and frisk thing.
  - kjs3 13y ago
    You claim you don't agree with it, and then immediately proceed to justify it's existence in the most transparently prejudiced manner. I'm sure some of your best friends are black, right? Sure, man...totally not racist.
tzs 13y ago
To those who down voted deedubaya, I have a question. Do you disagree with either or both of the following assertions, and if so, why? Assertion #1: common street and property crime, such as mugging, burglary, robbery, car theft, car jacking, and such is more likely to be committed by people who have limited money and limited advancement prospects than they are to be committed by people who have plenty of money and plenty of advancement opportunity. Assertion #2: due to slavery followed by almost 100 years of legal and often state enforced discrimination against black people, black people have historically been significantly overrepresented among those with limited money and limited advancement prospects. Although this has been improving since the Civil Rights Act and other protections against discrimination, things have not leveled out yet and blacks are sill very overrepresented at the lower ends of the economic spectrum. If you agree with both of these assertions, then why did you down vote deedubaya? If both those assertions are true, it necessarily follows that black people will be overrepresented among muggers, burglars, car jackers, and the like. When a group is overrepresented in some activity, good or bad, stereotypes tend to develop about that group and that activity. If we pretend there isn't some reason behind the stereotypes, it is harder to address those conditions that led to the stereotype.
- deedubaya 13y ago
  Thanks for actually reading the comment and not jumping on the "this guy is a racist!" bandwagon just because it is something I don't want to hear.
mcv 13y ago
Racial stereotypes are a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy. If people keep treating you as a criminal, and you have trouble getting accepted as a decent citizen, crime starts to become a more attractive option, because you already carry the associated social stigma anyway, and it's the only place where you can gain acceptance.
- mcv 13y ago
  I'm detecting an interesting pattern: all my comments that get downvoted contain the word "anyway". Comments without it don't get downvoted. Coincidence? Do people not like the word "anyway"? Or do I only use it when I'm in a particular state of mind that results in unpopular comments?

While I don't agree with the stop & frisk policy, let's all be honest: racial stereotypes exist for a reason, fair or not. This is a treatment of a symptom, not of the cause.

paulannesley 13y ago

Uh… what? Maybe you accidentally hit reply before elaborating on “racial stereotypes exist for a reason”.

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Understand that stereotypes may persist because they have a root in culture. E.g. imagine some subculture in a city gets in trouble routinely. To a law officer, soon everybody that looks like that seems likely to be an offender. After a while it becomes ingrained - a feud if you will - between law enforcement and the folks getting profiled. Why does it persist? Because culture == behavior. Because profiling works, for better or for worse.
- bentcorner 13y ago
  Looking through some of the data shows that blacks are overrepresented in crime[1] compared to their proportion of the population[2]. What would be the right thing to do? I think that everyone should be treated equally and all have the same rights as anyone else. Given the data I sympathize with a police force that resorts to profiling. There are likely larger social issues at play here, we are seeing symptoms of other problems. [1] http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity_jan_to_jun_2013.pdf http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_plan... [2] http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36000.html
  - scotth 13y ago
    Are they over-represented in crime when considering their class as well?
    - bentcorner 13y ago
      That's a great next question, unfortunately I don't have the data at hand to give you a good answer. I casually looked for some of this (read: spent a few minutes) and anything I could put together would be an amalgamation of several different sources of information and I'd likely make incorrect inferences from it.

Kluny 13y ago

"Let's be honest"? Don't involve the rest of us in your disgusting statements.

EricaJoy 13y ago

Please share the reason.

kjs3 13y ago

Translation: Minorities make me uncomfortable, so I'm for the police keeping them in their place.

deedubaya 13y ago
Translation: BURN THE WITCH! You might note that the first thing my comment stated is that I didn't agree with the whole stop and frisk thing.
- kjs3 13y ago
  You claim you don't agree with it, and then immediately proceed to justify it's existence in the most transparently prejudiced manner. I'm sure some of your best friends are black, right? Sure, man...totally not racist.

tzs 13y ago

To those who down voted deedubaya, I have a question. Do you disagree with either or both of the following assertions, and if so, why? Assertion #1: common street and property crime, such as mugging, burglary, robbery, car theft, car jacking, and such is more likely to be committed by people who have limited money and limited advancement prospects than they are to be committed by people who have plenty of money and plenty of advancement opportunity. Assertion #2: due to slavery followed by almost 100 years of legal and often state enforced discrimination against black people, black people have historically been significantly overrepresented among those with limited money and limited advancement prospects. Although this has been improving since the Civil Rights Act and other protections against discrimination, things have not leveled out yet and blacks are sill very overrepresented at the lower ends of the economic spectrum. If you agree with both of these assertions, then why did you down vote deedubaya? If both those assertions are true, it necessarily follows that black people will be overrepresented among muggers, burglars, car jackers, and the like. When a group is overrepresented in some activity, good or bad, stereotypes tend to develop about that group and that activity. If we pretend there isn't some reason behind the stereotypes, it is harder to address those conditions that led to the stereotype.

deedubaya 13y ago
Thanks for actually reading the comment and not jumping on the "this guy is a racist!" bandwagon just because it is something I don't want to hear.

mcv 13y ago

Racial stereotypes are a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy. If people keep treating you as a criminal, and you have trouble getting accepted as a decent citizen, crime starts to become a more attractive option, because you already carry the associated social stigma anyway, and it's the only place where you can gain acceptance.

mcv 13y ago
I'm detecting an interesting pattern: all my comments that get downvoted contain the word "anyway". Comments without it don't get downvoted. Coincidence? Do people not like the word "anyway"? Or do I only use it when I'm in a particular state of mind that results in unpopular comments?