5 ms·

Oh boy. I think you're somewhat over-exaggerating the situation. Yes, Russia has not been the most subtle in taking over Crimea, but I can say without a doubt

by insuffi 13y ago

Oh boy. I think you're somewhat over-exaggerating the situation. Yes, Russia has not been the most subtle in taking over Crimea, but I can say without a doubt that any of the major superpowers would do the same if a country nearby were to experience a coup d'etat. Especially if that country was strategically important. While not technically legal, Crimea really is mostly comprised of Russians and has had a special legal status for ages. A 97% vote does not surprise me. Russians in other eastern european countries also reminisce of the "good old times". I think much of the backlash is due to Russia being projected as the stereotypical evil commie. I really don't want to venture into conspiracy theory territory, since that would probably hurt my credibility, but I would not be surprised to see the EU and US behind this as a means of trying to cut Russia off from the outside world(after inviting Ukraine into the EU failed). Don't forget the opposition has strong ties with the U.S. This might be of interest to you. http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-protests-carefully-orchestrated-the-role-of-canvas-us-financed-color-revolution-training-group/5369906 http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraine-protests-carefully-orch... Globalresearch is a credible think tank.

mtrimpe 13y ago
OK. It's pretty clear that you've been heavily exposed to a single perspective of the situation. There is no way in hell 97% of the population voted in favor with 80+% turnout; especially given that 30+% of the population is Tatar or Ukrainian. Based on leaked reports to the Kremlin the real turnout is estimated at a bit over 30%. Regardless; the referendum was literally held at gunpoint after all Ukrainian news had been shut off and Russian television showed massive fascists uprising and murder in Kiev, which heavily scared the population and did make a large portion of the population believe they were being rescued. Thus, even if the results were true, it still would not have been a valid referendum. As for the protests, based on direct sources from real people the protests were organize by just that: real everyday people. Once again though; the regime was not overthrown by the protesters, but by Yanukovich losing moral authority after ordering shooting of civilians. If you want to argue the snipers were also a false flag operation then you'd indeed be well into conspiracy nut territory; but I can also point you to videos of Ukrainian snipers assembling if you want. Global Research also doesn't have that good of a reputation. In [1] it explicitly mentions one of it's main reality warping effects comes from a heavy reliance on Russia Today material. [1] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  I don't have statistics but my colleague went to watch the referendum and 80% turnout is what he witnessed. Of course it was just one area of Simferopol. http://breqwas.livejournal.com/301901.html http://breqwas.livejournal.com/301901.html in russian
  - mtrimpe 13y ago
    My Russian is not that good, but doesn't this also mention some irregularities which cast some doubt on that number? Regardless, if a single polling station in a fairly pro-Russian area, kept on its toes by (amateur) observers, gets a 75% turnout that makes an 80% turnout overall very unlikely given the boycott of the referendum by Crimean tatars. What's your take on the 123% turnout in Sebastopol btw? P.S. You are talking about turnout right? Because the votes being 80+% in favor is perfectly possible.
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      You can use google translate. Yes there were irregularities, the process was either rough or rigged. However he was seeing a voluntary 75% turnout with exit pool showing more than 75% in favour.
- insuffi 13y ago
  I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is heavily exposed to a single perspective. Keep watching your CNN. I myself am from eastern europe and have first hand witnessed russian attitude towards post soviet satellite countries. Don't teach me what I know. Literally almost everything you say is wrong. Referendum was not held at gunpoint. I've seen western sources use that phrase, so I know where you got it from. It is a valid referendum because Crimea has a weird legal status, look up Autonomous republic of Crimea. No, the protest most certainly was not organized by real everyday people. Strategically taking over buildings is not what real everyday people do. I do want to argue that the situation with snipers was not one sided. Some sources say they shot at both, rioters* and the police. Notice how I use the term rioters - that was not a protest. P.S. I have no reason to be biased since I don't generally like Russians, especially the ones that stayed in satellite countries after the fall of the Soviet union. They have a habit of not learning the language and not respecting the host country. P.S.S Learn fucking Russian, so that you can get both sides of the picture, not just biased rehashes of reuters/cnn/msnbc.
contulluipeste 13y ago
«While not technically legal, Crimea really is mostly comprised of Russians and has had a special legal status for ages. A 97% vote does not surprise me.» What surprises me is that a resulting figure from a so-called "referendum" (taken under foreign armed forces occupation) is taken into account and considered at all! This «not technically legal» does not even begin to describe the situation.

by insuffi 13y ago

mtrimpe 13y ago

OK. It's pretty clear that you've been heavily exposed to a single perspective of the situation. There is no way in hell 97% of the population voted in favor with 80+% turnout; especially given that 30+% of the population is Tatar or Ukrainian. Based on leaked reports to the Kremlin the real turnout is estimated at a bit over 30%. Regardless; the referendum was literally held at gunpoint after all Ukrainian news had been shut off and Russian television showed massive fascists uprising and murder in Kiev, which heavily scared the population and did make a large portion of the population believe they were being rescued. Thus, even if the results were true, it still would not have been a valid referendum. As for the protests, based on direct sources from real people the protests were organize by just that: real everyday people. Once again though; the regime was not overthrown by the protesters, but by Yanukovich losing moral authority after ordering shooting of civilians. If you want to argue the snipers were also a false flag operation then you'd indeed be well into conspiracy nut territory; but I can also point you to videos of Ukrainian snipers assembling if you want. Global Research also doesn't have that good of a reputation. In [1] it explicitly mentions one of it's main reality warping effects comes from a heavy reliance on Russia Today material. [1] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

guard-of-terra 13y ago
I don't have statistics but my colleague went to watch the referendum and 80% turnout is what he witnessed. Of course it was just one area of Simferopol. http://breqwas.livejournal.com/301901.html http://breqwas.livejournal.com/301901.html in russian
- mtrimpe 13y ago
  My Russian is not that good, but doesn't this also mention some irregularities which cast some doubt on that number? Regardless, if a single polling station in a fairly pro-Russian area, kept on its toes by (amateur) observers, gets a 75% turnout that makes an 80% turnout overall very unlikely given the boycott of the referendum by Crimean tatars. What's your take on the 123% turnout in Sebastopol btw? P.S. You are talking about turnout right? Because the votes being 80+% in favor is perfectly possible.
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    You can use google translate. Yes there were irregularities, the process was either rough or rigged. However he was seeing a voluntary 75% turnout with exit pool showing more than 75% in favour.
insuffi 13y ago
I'm sorry, but YOU are the one who is heavily exposed to a single perspective. Keep watching your CNN. I myself am from eastern europe and have first hand witnessed russian attitude towards post soviet satellite countries. Don't teach me what I know. Literally almost everything you say is wrong. Referendum was not held at gunpoint. I've seen western sources use that phrase, so I know where you got it from. It is a valid referendum because Crimea has a weird legal status, look up Autonomous republic of Crimea. No, the protest most certainly was not organized by real everyday people. Strategically taking over buildings is not what real everyday people do. I do want to argue that the situation with snipers was not one sided. Some sources say they shot at both, rioters* and the police. Notice how I use the term rioters - that was not a protest. P.S. I have no reason to be biased since I don't generally like Russians, especially the ones that stayed in satellite countries after the fall of the Soviet union. They have a habit of not learning the language and not respecting the host country. P.S.S Learn fucking Russian, so that you can get both sides of the picture, not just biased rehashes of reuters/cnn/msnbc.

contulluipeste 13y ago

«While not technically legal, Crimea really is mostly comprised of Russians and has had a special legal status for ages. A 97% vote does not surprise me.» What surprises me is that a resulting figure from a so-called "referendum" (taken under foreign armed forces occupation) is taken into account and considered at all! This «not technically legal» does not even begin to describe the situation.