4 ms·

> The question is whether the current security system is appropriately tuned to the security threat. Does it do more harm than good? Let's see... The current "

> The question is whether the current security system is appropriately tuned to the security threat. Does it do more harm than good? Let's see... The current "security system" of the US seems to consist in attacking other countries, turning its citizens into paranoids and implementing counter-productive policies. It kills thousands of people and destroys wealth. Kind of like a second 9/11, with less intensity. So I guess it does way more harm than good. And please, don't mod this as a troll; that's basically the thesis of Schneier's book "Beyond fear".

DanielBMarkham 19y ago
Please. Tell us what you really feel. Stop holding back so much. :) I know it's fun to lob rhetorical hand grenades around. The nice thing about the US is that we have a system where failure is accepted. If you don't like the policies or leaders, there will always be someone along later that's more to your liking. We've done all kinds of screwed up stuff -- and all kinds of good stuff. I think it's absolutely important to point out where we're wrong, but a little perspective can be useful too. In my perfect world there would be a lot less government involvement in all of our lives. We would be armed and take care of things like terrorism ourselves right when it happened, instead of farming the responsibility for our security out to big government. But both the left and the right want to take away all of our freedoms and do all the worrying and thinking for us. So that means we turn what should be personal things like health care, personal security, property ownership, and privacy into a huge multi-generational political argument without resolution. And then people complain that the government gets it wrong! I think people are all too happy to take away somebody else's freedom for their pet cause. It's just when somebody else does it to them that they squeal the most. That's why I can only answer what freedoms I am personally willing to trade in the war on terror. I can't and won't make those decisions for other people. I can make one observation, though. As democracies are attacked by terrorism they have a tendency to get more and more restrictive. I would expect the US to follow that pattern -- it has in the past. The thing I am watching is whether those restrictions are temporary or permanent. I don't countenance too much the argument that politicians use fear to keep the war on terror machine humming along. To me that sounds a lot more paranoid than just simply acknowledging that there are people right now who are actively plotting to kill lots of Americans. It's nothing to go beserko about, just something to consider when you make decisions to vote for representatives. If attacks continue over the next few decades, voters will punish politicians who downplay the threat of terrorism. That's just political reality.
- pg 19y ago
  The nice thing about the US is that we have a system where failure is accepted. If you don't like the policies or leaders, there will always be someone along later that's more to your liking. I wish. Some of the top layer changes in elections, but it seems like the bad guys in the government have very long careers, alternating between government appointments and jobs in companies closely tied to the government. Cheney is a famous example, but there are thousands more like him. The culture in this world seems to be quite different from that of startup hubs. These people are suits squared. They fail a lot, but not because they try wildly imaginative things. They fail because succeeding (as we'd measure it) is not their goal; power is.
  - DanielBMarkham 19y ago
    I don't know, Paul. I just am not the person to sit around wringing my hands over how bad the political system is -- and I'm a political junkie :) I've consulted with large government agencies and I've seen the alliances that form between various players, congress, and various agencies. My opinion is that any cohesive group of people with a lot of time on their hands is going to try to take political power from other people. The caricature people use is Cheney and the military, but it happens all over the place. I remember back in the 80s environmental groups would go around to state legislatures, getting them to write very complex laws. Then they would hit all of the local governments, offering to consult with them so they would be in compliance with the laws they helped write! So the big old wheel just keeps turning around and around. I will agree that the structure of the system is broken. Complex systems have a tendency to spin out of control. But in general the whole thing kind of hangs together anyway. We're not out in the streets with M-16s shooting at each other. Instead we can sit in our cushy chairs enjoying all of the benefits of freedom while we craft pithy arguments to toss at one another. I remember when the economy was in the toilet during the late 70s. Carter used to get on TV and say not only did the country suck, it was pretty much all our fault. Here's hoping that form of leadership doesn't return.
    - aswanson 19y ago
      I'd take Carter over the current leadership of this country any day of the week.

DanielBMarkham 19y ago

Please. Tell us what you really feel. Stop holding back so much. :) I know it's fun to lob rhetorical hand grenades around. The nice thing about the US is that we have a system where failure is accepted. If you don't like the policies or leaders, there will always be someone along later that's more to your liking. We've done all kinds of screwed up stuff -- and all kinds of good stuff. I think it's absolutely important to point out where we're wrong, but a little perspective can be useful too. In my perfect world there would be a lot less government involvement in all of our lives. We would be armed and take care of things like terrorism ourselves right when it happened, instead of farming the responsibility for our security out to big government. But both the left and the right want to take away all of our freedoms and do all the worrying and thinking for us. So that means we turn what should be personal things like health care, personal security, property ownership, and privacy into a huge multi-generational political argument without resolution. And then people complain that the government gets it wrong! I think people are all too happy to take away somebody else's freedom for their pet cause. It's just when somebody else does it to them that they squeal the most. That's why I can only answer what freedoms I am personally willing to trade in the war on terror. I can't and won't make those decisions for other people. I can make one observation, though. As democracies are attacked by terrorism they have a tendency to get more and more restrictive. I would expect the US to follow that pattern -- it has in the past. The thing I am watching is whether those restrictions are temporary or permanent. I don't countenance too much the argument that politicians use fear to keep the war on terror machine humming along. To me that sounds a lot more paranoid than just simply acknowledging that there are people right now who are actively plotting to kill lots of Americans. It's nothing to go beserko about, just something to consider when you make decisions to vote for representatives. If attacks continue over the next few decades, voters will punish politicians who downplay the threat of terrorism. That's just political reality.

pg 19y ago
The nice thing about the US is that we have a system where failure is accepted. If you don't like the policies or leaders, there will always be someone along later that's more to your liking. I wish. Some of the top layer changes in elections, but it seems like the bad guys in the government have very long careers, alternating between government appointments and jobs in companies closely tied to the government. Cheney is a famous example, but there are thousands more like him. The culture in this world seems to be quite different from that of startup hubs. These people are suits squared. They fail a lot, but not because they try wildly imaginative things. They fail because succeeding (as we'd measure it) is not their goal; power is.
- DanielBMarkham 19y ago
  I don't know, Paul. I just am not the person to sit around wringing my hands over how bad the political system is -- and I'm a political junkie :) I've consulted with large government agencies and I've seen the alliances that form between various players, congress, and various agencies. My opinion is that any cohesive group of people with a lot of time on their hands is going to try to take political power from other people. The caricature people use is Cheney and the military, but it happens all over the place. I remember back in the 80s environmental groups would go around to state legislatures, getting them to write very complex laws. Then they would hit all of the local governments, offering to consult with them so they would be in compliance with the laws they helped write! So the big old wheel just keeps turning around and around. I will agree that the structure of the system is broken. Complex systems have a tendency to spin out of control. But in general the whole thing kind of hangs together anyway. We're not out in the streets with M-16s shooting at each other. Instead we can sit in our cushy chairs enjoying all of the benefits of freedom while we craft pithy arguments to toss at one another. I remember when the economy was in the toilet during the late 70s. Carter used to get on TV and say not only did the country suck, it was pretty much all our fault. Here's hoping that form of leadership doesn't return.
  - aswanson 19y ago
    I'd take Carter over the current leadership of this country any day of the week.