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It sounds like you're talking about programming jobs and an education in computer science. In this area, it's true that you don't need a college degree. But th

It sounds like you're talking about programming jobs and an education in computer science. In this area, it's true that you don't need a college degree. But the article makes no mention of computer science or programming. Instead, it talks about engineering, a set of disciplines that may involve programming but often centers on a much different curriculum. A degree in, say, mechanical or industrial engineering will unlock opportunities that would not be available otherwise.

meritt 13y ago
While the author, Fred Wilson, does indeed use the term "engineering", he shouldn't be using it. The source data is explicitly about Computer Science degrees: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/which-college-and-which-major-will-make-you-richest/359628/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/which-co... > "The three majors with the highest ROI in America are Computer Science, Computer Science, and Computer Science." I don't disagree with you but the context of this publication is absolutely about CompSci.
- jerf 13y ago
  That's actually really interesting, I think. There are clearly some jobs that blow away computer science jobs, such as in the finance industry or certain lawyer positions, but for computer to average better, that implies those jobs are more of a lottery ticket than a computer science job.
- fredgrott 13y ago
  you have to excuse Fred he has been away form programming for awhile :) Yes, I agree CS is different from Software Engineering
  - _delirium 13y ago
    CS isn't the same as software engineering, but the companies recruiting from Harvey Mudd CS majors tend to be fairly engineering-heavy in their outlook, even when hiring for CS positions. There's a lot of attention from places like Lockheed, Aerospace Corporation, even the oil & gas sector. Those kinds of companies typically require a STEM degree, unlike tech startups. Which specific degree varies based on the job: sometimes CS, sometimes engineering, sometimes math, sometimes it can be flexible. You can get a loose idea of who's interested in recruiting there by looking at who sponsors senior clinic projects, and what areas they're in, e.g.: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/clinic/projects/ http://www.cs.hmc.edu/clinic/projects/
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- geebee 13y ago
  That's interesting. It's a little different from the survey I saw at payscale, where publics seem to do a bit better. http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-schools-by-major/computer-science http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-scho... They are measuring different things - the atlantic is measuring 20 year ROI, whereas payscale is measuring mid-career salary (according to the payscale methodology, "the typical (median) mid-career employee is 42 years old and has 15 years of experience." So higher initial salaries would fare better on the atlantic survey than the payscale one. Only Berkeley, Stanford, and CMU show up on both lists, but what data is there does seem to confirm higher initial salaries for elite private college like Stanford (though the publics seem to catch up by mid-career).
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    > the typical (median) mid-career employee is 42 years old and has 15 years of experience I find this pretty fascinating. I'm on track to hit or fall under this begin-your-career-at-the-age-of-27 threshold, but I've never perceived it as typical at all; quite the reverse. What are 50% of people doing until they're 27?
    - geebee 13y ago
      I don't know, it's a good question. I personally floated around a bit in my early 20s and finally went to grad school at 26, so I'm more aligned with this definition of "mid-career", but I always thought of my case as a little unusual, especially for software careers. But maybe it's a little more typical than I thought.

meritt 13y ago

While the author, Fred Wilson, does indeed use the term "engineering", he shouldn't be using it. The source data is explicitly about Computer Science degrees: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/which-college-and-which-major-will-make-you-richest/359628/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/which-co... > "The three majors with the highest ROI in America are Computer Science, Computer Science, and Computer Science." I don't disagree with you but the context of this publication is absolutely about CompSci.

jerf 13y ago
That's actually really interesting, I think. There are clearly some jobs that blow away computer science jobs, such as in the finance industry or certain lawyer positions, but for computer to average better, that implies those jobs are more of a lottery ticket than a computer science job.
fredgrott 13y ago
you have to excuse Fred he has been away form programming for awhile :) Yes, I agree CS is different from Software Engineering
- _delirium 13y ago
  CS isn't the same as software engineering, but the companies recruiting from Harvey Mudd CS majors tend to be fairly engineering-heavy in their outlook, even when hiring for CS positions. There's a lot of attention from places like Lockheed, Aerospace Corporation, even the oil & gas sector. Those kinds of companies typically require a STEM degree, unlike tech startups. Which specific degree varies based on the job: sometimes CS, sometimes engineering, sometimes math, sometimes it can be flexible. You can get a loose idea of who's interested in recruiting there by looking at who sponsors senior clinic projects, and what areas they're in, e.g.: http://www.cs.hmc.edu/clinic/projects/ http://www.cs.hmc.edu/clinic/projects/
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
geebee 13y ago
That's interesting. It's a little different from the survey I saw at payscale, where publics seem to do a bit better. http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-schools-by-major/computer-science http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-scho... They are measuring different things - the atlantic is measuring 20 year ROI, whereas payscale is measuring mid-career salary (according to the payscale methodology, "the typical (median) mid-career employee is 42 years old and has 15 years of experience." So higher initial salaries would fare better on the atlantic survey than the payscale one. Only Berkeley, Stanford, and CMU show up on both lists, but what data is there does seem to confirm higher initial salaries for elite private college like Stanford (though the publics seem to catch up by mid-career).
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  > the typical (median) mid-career employee is 42 years old and has 15 years of experience I find this pretty fascinating. I'm on track to hit or fall under this begin-your-career-at-the-age-of-27 threshold, but I've never perceived it as typical at all; quite the reverse. What are 50% of people doing until they're 27?
  - geebee 13y ago
    I don't know, it's a good question. I personally floated around a bit in my early 20s and finally went to grad school at 26, so I'm more aligned with this definition of "mid-career", but I always thought of my case as a little unusual, especially for software careers. But maybe it's a little more typical than I thought.