60 ms·

The problem seems to be that "design" means two different things here - #1 User experience and graphic design, and #2 program architecture. I was talking mostly

The problem seems to be that "design" means two different things here - #1 User experience and graphic design, and #2 program architecture. I was talking mostly about #2. I agree that if you want a slick-looking app, you have to put some upfront thought into #1 - maybe not nail down where every pixel goes, but establish the metaphors, colour schemes, mock up some sample screens and so on.

alabut 17y ago
Agreed that we agree - I limited the discussion to #1 because that's how the blog post described it. #2 is important as well, but honestly, I find that worrying too much about #2 upfront makes it too easy for coders to go down blind alleys and turn into "architecture astronauts" as Spolsky would say because they're busy implementing what's technically interesting rather than pure minimum needed to make an interface work. And don't get me wrong, that's just as much a danger for designers to go off into visual polish mode and get the interface looking like lickable candy rather than making the bare minimum interface they need to test with real users, whether with usability testing or metrics or what have you. I'm definitely an advocate for both designers and programmers to implement the smallest possible feature set they need to test their app or site in the real world. Speaking of which, I'm not sure the original blog author limited the scope of their app either - they didn't explain how they define "success". I think it might just be that the interface actually got made and photoshop files got sliced up into html/css? That's a pretty low bar if that's the case.
- StrawberryFrog 17y ago
  I find that worrying too much about #2 upfront makes it too easy for coders to go down blind alleys and turn into "architecture astronauts" I am still agreeing, and that's about where I came in. The words "Design first, then code" are fighting talk to an agile software guy. But if you add "but I meant graphic design not software design" I would say "oh... that's all right then, I guess".

alabut 17y ago

Agreed that we agree - I limited the discussion to #1 because that's how the blog post described it. #2 is important as well, but honestly, I find that worrying too much about #2 upfront makes it too easy for coders to go down blind alleys and turn into "architecture astronauts" as Spolsky would say because they're busy implementing what's technically interesting rather than pure minimum needed to make an interface work. And don't get me wrong, that's just as much a danger for designers to go off into visual polish mode and get the interface looking like lickable candy rather than making the bare minimum interface they need to test with real users, whether with usability testing or metrics or what have you. I'm definitely an advocate for both designers and programmers to implement the smallest possible feature set they need to test their app or site in the real world. Speaking of which, I'm not sure the original blog author limited the scope of their app either - they didn't explain how they define "success". I think it might just be that the interface actually got made and photoshop files got sliced up into html/css? That's a pretty low bar if that's the case.

StrawberryFrog 17y ago
I find that worrying too much about #2 upfront makes it too easy for coders to go down blind alleys and turn into "architecture astronauts" I am still agreeing, and that's about where I came in. The words "Design first, then code" are fighting talk to an agile software guy. But if you add "but I meant graphic design not software design" I would say "oh... that's all right then, I guess".