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I am married to a Chinese-Indonesian woman. We have three children. It is fascinating to be forced to stare across a cultural gap every day navigating two ver
by einhverfr 13y ago
I am married to a Chinese-Indonesian woman. We have three children. It is fascinating to be forced to stare across a cultural gap every day navigating two very, very different worlds. I therefore feel I am in a very different position to discuss this issue than I suspect most here are.
There is a fundamental mismatch between Asian culture and American culture. This mismatch is even greater than it is between European culture and Asian culture. Americans are extraordinarily individualist. Asians are extraordinarily communitarian. Family is, in a very real way, the economic and social basis of survival in most of Asia. And yes, filial piety is a big part of that. I will also say that my wife can't stand the US because of the cultural gap, so she took the opposite direction than many of these writers, and instead of wondering about Asian values, rejected entirely the American ones. We now live in Indonesia.
Asian culture works for the most part, even as strict and harsh as it is. Many of my Asian-American friends in the US have been able to retire early. And yes, Asians do dominate some industries. And later in life, having children who will care for you in your old age is far better than the American way. There is much that mainstream American culture can learn from Asian culture as we must find more sustainable ways to live.
But there are costs too. At least here among the Chinese-Indonesians, very little or no value is placed on childhood play. It's just a waste of time when one could be learning how to be an adult. What is vitally missing in my view is a recognition that kids learn extremely important lessons through play, and that these lessons are no less important to success than learning math or science in school. This has been a challenge for our kids because cultivating a sense of play goes against the culture.
What disappoints me about the article is the fact that it seems very much like a one-sided self-critique. Immigrants generally have the potential to disrupt existing cultural ways of thinking by offering a different sort of critique. But here what I see is "I want to stop being Asian and be just American."
But instead if we had a dialog, we'd see that there are things we can learn from eachother, and that is a far better way forward than lamenting Asian values.
- sakagami0 13y ago>lamenting Asian values I think the article is realizes that most people praise what Asians are doing but don't yet realize its faults and is trying to bring up the counterpoint. Rather than giving us a discussion, the writer attempts to dispel a myth so that we as the readers can have our own discussion.
- ronaldx 13y ago>What is vitally missing in my view is a recognition that kids learn extremely important lessons through play, and that these lessons are no less important to success than learning math or science in school. Play is sometimes seen as important (in animals) because it establishes a dominance ranking in a less formal/less dangerous way than full-on fighting. Is that then a positive thing for children to engage in? For a culture to be more meritocratic, it would seem reasonable and perhaps necessary for society to discourage this type of play, no?
- pjc50 13y agoThat's an extremely narrow view of "play"!
- ronaldx 13y agoSure. I understand that I've been insta-downvoted for that, but it doesn't change that I think it's worth considering. We (in the West) like play because we believe that play influences learning: we have a very positive view of play, which I generally agree with. But, we have to consider that play, depending on the nature of it, has potential negative consequences as well. I'm suggesting that in a highly meritocratic society, alternative dominance rankings cannot be allowed/encouraged. Another commenter indicates that they would value a discussion: but the current culture of downvoting for disagreement seems counterproductive to open discussion.
- einhverfr 13y agoIt's not just dominance though, and I disagree with you. The value of play is that it teaches a couple of very important things. The first is that things fit together in different ways. When children are playing they are usually engaging in highly creative activity (provided it isn't sitting in front of the video game console). This activity is important to a whole range of things, and it includes things as diverse as self-motivation and invention. For a culture to discourage play is to focus not so much on meritocracy so much as it is in quashing individualism both regarding internal motivation and innovation. I say this even though I sincerely believe that innovation depends on details and that masters of a craft are the best able to innovate within it. But unless you have a sense of empowerment and motivation to do this, this is significantly slowed down. Again, this is just tackling the point on play. I don't think it is about meritocracy. I think it is about the relationship between individual production and community.
- JPKab 13y agoWow. You're wife's hatred of the US caused you to move to Indonesia? Something tells me you have very little input on how the kids are raised.
- einhverfr 13y agoIt's not really hatred, just a rejection of the individualism. And actually I have a fair bit of input. We lived in the US for 7 years. It's time to live in her country now for a time, especially since she wasn't happy in the US.