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How the Most Expensive Game Jam Crashed And Burned in a Single Day
- naiyt 13y agoSome choice quotes: > ...but Matti pushed the angle. And as the challenge went on we discovered that he had cornered Jon in a room to try and get him to speak poorly of Zoe, the only negative “story” they could muster out of all fifteen contestants. > “Two of the other teams have women on them. Do you think they’re at a disadvantage?” Silence. It was like the wind was sucked out of the room behind the barrier, but the floor was so loud only the two all-male teams heard the question. Mark answered diplomatically that the teams actually had a huge advantage by having more viewpoints, though everyone was strong regardless because of their skill. Matti cut him off, pulled back the camera, and coughed, “Stop filming. We’re not getting a story here.” It's a pretty long article, so here's a TL;DR: Maker Studios is a very large YouTube network (the one that was just bought by Disney for $500 million). They tried to create some sort of game jam, and invited some teams of indie devs to participate. It devolved into being some sort of awful corporate-backed reality show, and the devs were consistently disrespected. The guy with the misogynistic quotes above was the main problem, according to a lot of the people there. Trying to push contention, etc, for the sake of the "reality" aspect of it. That dude got sacked, and the devs all walked away. Apparently the whole thing cost $400,000.
- mcphilip 13y ago> UPDATE: Rumors are going around that the writer of the article was fired from his Polaris/Maker gig. Technically he was a contractor and not an employee of Polaris. He didn't get fired (you can't outright fire contractors), the remainder of his contract was canceled. I suspect this is due to some perceived breach of the contract related to his reporting on GAME_JAM. The author mentioned upfront that he didn't necessarily expect to come out unscathed after the article, but he stuck to his guns and did what he felt was right. Respect.
- naiyt 13y agoYeah, I'm not entirely sure what's going on with that so I removed that part of my post for now. The author just tweeted again saying "he wasn't fired", so maybe they haven't actually cancelled his contract. There will probably be more solid info once the dust settles.
- frandroid 13y agoSemantics.
- Jare 13y agohttps://twitter.com/notquitefrodo/status/450759909303255040 https://twitter.com/notquitefrodo/status/450759909303255040 "CLARIFICATION: @PolarisTweets never let me go! I am still there in my old capacity. It was really scary miscommunication, thank God." To be honest, his writing in that article is terrible and his ability to miscommunicate something like that is scary.
- baking 13y agoThe article was hard to follow, but I respect him for writing it. I sure hope he keeps his day job. ;)
- Blackavar 13y agoIt looks like the miscommunication was _to_ him, not _from_ him. He was called in to collect his stuff, but then not fired once he got in with his boss. Personally, I had no trouble following the article.
- VintageCool 13y agoThe article assumed that the reader already knew what he was talking about and the people involved. It takes 11 paragraphs before he tells you what GAME_JAM is. Then the article names people like Zoe and Robin, gives their perspective, and describes them doing things long before we meet Zoe or learn what her role was in GAME_JAM.
- jsmthrowaway 13y agoThe "guy" in question isn't just anybody, it's Matti Leshem. Leshem is extremely well-connected in the Los Angeles production and marketing networks (I know of him tangentially from my television work), and his company, Protagonist, is Pepsi's primary strategy consultancy. I'm pretty sure TBWA\Chiat\Day is still Pepsi's marketer of record, but Protagonist drives the social push, broad strategy, and so on. They've worked with him over a decade so Leshem is basically a Pepsi man and the Mountain Dew angle of GAME_JAM makes a lot more sense in that context. Based on what I've heard of him, Leshem turned a career making soap operas into one of those "high-energy brand power" sort of consultancies, the marketing equation solved to its limit that disgusts everyone when they think about "marketing." He and his wife represent a big Hollywood power couple -- she's high up at Warner Brothers and responsible for movies like Se7en and Benjamin Button, he's responsible for cultural triumphs like "USA Rock Paper Scissors League" (sponsored by Amp Energy, a PepsiCo brand, of course). This article should explain a lot, from Variety in 2003: http://variety.com/2003/scene/news/branded-tv-bubbling-up-from-leshem-1117893691/ http://variety.com/2003/scene/news/branded-tv-bubbling-up-fr... -- I have no doubt in my mind that Matti Leshem showed up on set thinking "YouTube vehicle for Pepsi" and acted accordingly. Which should tell you a lot about Pepsi, honestly.
- mercurial 13y agoIt's revealing that selling your body results in social ostracism but selling your soul has the opposite effect.
- x0x0 13y agoTrying to "explore industry sexism" by attempting to trick these devs into talking shit behind each others' backs is amazing. Particularly combined with the contracts, about which: "another [sic] clause allowed for willful misrepresentation for the sake of drama [...]", this could have ended poorly for a lot of these folks. Let me guess: at least one of those women was going to be a raging bitch and at least one of those guys was going to be a women-hating misogynist bro. At least by the time it hit youtube. Regardless of what they said or whether they had to stitch sentences together ala chef's death on south park. Props to all of them who told the producers to diaf.
- comrh 13y agoPretty terrible situation. As an aside, the link about what happened to Zoe Quinn when she submitted her game, Depression Quest, to Steam Greenlight, is something I had not heard before. I was blown away by her deceptively simple RPG and to hear about that backlash is rage inducing.
- mercurial 13y agoUnfortunately, you really have a number of extremely vocal, misogynist trolls out there. A particularly disgusting sub-species of the Internet bully, bravely threatening rape and death from behind their keyboard. Ugh. Here is to hoping at least some of them get help and grow out of it.
- swanson 13y agoIf anyone is curious how to do this kind of hyper-niche techie reality show the right way, please do check out Penny Arcade's Strip Search: http://www.penny-arcade.com/strip-search http://www.penny-arcade.com/strip-search The premise is to get a bunch of comic strip artists together and compete to win a working space at Penny Arcade's office in Seattle and some cash (the idea being this would be used to launch their own comic strip). Some things that really worked well: * There was almost zero bullshit reality TV manufactured drama * Everyone treated each other with respect and I think every artist gained something from being on the show (new fans, support for Kickstarter projects, etc) * Focused on the work being produced, including plenty of links to scans of all the artwork on the show website * Episodes released on YouTube (could use existing apps, infrastructure) * Two episodes (15-25min) released each week (short enough to consume, frequent enough to keep you hooked) * Enough production value for it to not be a distraction; obviously this isn't a major network TV show, but it wasn't some person's first production using iMovie * The show didn't take itself too seriously. Watch the "elimination ceremonies" to see what I mean. Definitely worth a watch, and worth learning from :)
- arrrg 13y agoI was thinking Amnesia Fortnight from 2 Player Productions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzTjf-I-A8&index=2&list=PLIhLvue17Sd7Y5qXNqV1wDPtdNPjZ-tw0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzTjf-I-A8&index=2&list=PLI... It’s not about a game jam (but it’s four team leads with four teams getting to make a prototype of their game idea in two weeks, so pretty similar) but it’s about game development. Great productions values, all on YouTube, no manufactured drama, but still plenty of actual drama, tension and hilarious moments. The idea behind this game jam is pretty awesome and deserves to be implemented the right way. It wouldn’t even have to be the more contemplative style of 2 Player Productions.
- KVFinn 13y ago>I was thinking Amnesia Fortnight from 2 Player Productions: Yeah these are fantastic. High recommended. Production quality is high enough they could air them on TV too.
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- kevingadd 13y agoPost-script: the author of this article was just canned by his employers because they don't come out of it smelling like roses. https://twitter.com/notquitefrodo/status/450742394606981120 https://twitter.com/notquitefrodo/status/450742394606981120 https://twitter.com/NickCapozzoli/status/450743775783297024 https://twitter.com/NickCapozzoli/status/450743775783297024
- mercurial 13y agoReckon that didn't come entirely as a surprise. Best of luck to him, I really liked the article.
- werid 13y agoNow he's unfired, apparently. Perhaps they sensed a shitstorm. https://twitter.com/notquitefrodo/status/450750588326658048 https://twitter.com/notquitefrodo/status/450750588326658048
- watwut 13y agoThose tweets are deleted, but I'm seriously curios this time. Anyone remember them?
- Fomite 13y ago"Adriel built shit that flies around in space. It’s probably flying around in space right now." A great end to a great paragraph about the effect of summing up hard working professionals based on gender traits.
- wheaties 13y agoI worked with her on that project to put a satellite into space. She did a damnable fine job on the lightning algorithm. I managed to write an over engineered piece of junk. Funny part is, her "simple" code was far better than my "complex" code no less in part because she actually was writing in the idiom of the language while I was fighting it.
- wglb 13y agoThere is a fascinating story there. Can you say more?
- wheaties 13y agoSure, If you're writing Python, write Python not Haskell. C#, don't try to do Erlang. Basically, write to the language you're working in and not to something you're not. Also, if you think a deep domain based algorithm is wrong, making it so that you can remove pieces of it piecemeal is the wrong choice. Point out the flaw, bring it to the people in charge and let them handle it.
- wglb 13y agoSuper. I know someone in security who writes ruby that looks like C. I was also curious about the space part of the project.
- jamespitts 13y agoI've worked in LA on various tech projects in the entertainment industry... and this case has a familiar ring to it. Be wary of allowing people and general culture from the Industry in on your gig. Especially if cameras are rolling. Really sit down and think about what is being traded -- possibly your time and integrity for a brief laugh. Of course another way to look at it is: one individual who caused trouble here for taking it too far and not being sensitive to the situation. Whatever the industry, we've all run across people like Matti :)
- dbrower 13y agoJeez, it would be nice if someone, somewhere, would define GAME_JAM for those of us out of that bubble.
- wtbob 13y agoLooks like a bunch of folks with un-natural hair colours trying to write games while being yelled at or something.
- RankingMember 13y agohahaha
- vertex-four 13y agoIt's quite well explained throughout the article, although not in the first few paragraphs. Essentially, it's a reality TV show that was originally supposed to be a vaguely-documentary type thing about a game jam, but morphed into something the devs revolted against.
- KVFinn 13y agoHackathon for games. Bunch of people meet up and make a game from the ground up. Typically for a weekend but sometimes longer. At the end everyone shows off what they made. Notably while you do divide up into teams in a game jam, and they might even give out prizes, game jams are not thought of as a competitive event. It's very common artists and musician to contribute to multiple teams, programmers help others with stuff they specialize in, everyone is always getting feedback and playtests from others, etc.
- jevinskie 13y agoSeriously, please! I read the whole article and at the end I felt like I was still missing crucial pieces of info. This style of writing may be "interesting" but it is definitely not information dense.
- KVFinn 13y agoCan they do anything with the footage they have? Maybe they accidentally created a great documentary about contestants who revolted from a reality show. Shoot some followup interviews and make something great from this wreck. That's the real narrative and it's more interesting than the drama they were attempting to artificially create anyway.
- _Robbie 13y agoThey only filmed for one day. Also, it sounds like the developers did not want anything do to with the production company afterwards based on how they rejected all potential fixes.
- chilldream 13y agoThey may not even have permission to air what they already have; some of the developers hadn't even signed the contract yet.
- wtracy 13y agoI was thinking about that, too. I suspect, though, that no matter what the devs signed, Matti Leshem never signed away the right to have himself shown in bad light He would probably raise cain if any of the footage of his flopped interviews gets aired. Doubly so if he's as well-connected as it sounds like he is.
- pjc50 13y agoI suspect that's not what the sponsor wants to see, and therefore will not be seen.
- nness 13y agoFascinating read, but it feels like a good third of the article was the author self-importantly talking about himself. You could fairly skip to the first heading, "The Set-Up", and not lose a single bit if insight.
- nols 13y agoI think he was just too close, he was making a lot of assumptions about how much the average reader knew about indie game development and his role in it. It just might be pretty standard for Indie Statik though, I´ve never read or heard of it before.
- arrrg 13y agoYeah, as someone with just a casual interest in indie games (I had heard of the names of three of the developers before read a lot of and about two of them) and that whole YouTube thing (I know two or so of the mentioned YouTube people) this story was pretty easy to follow. For someone outside of that it must be much, much harder to follow. It could certainly be improved for a more general audience but I’m not even sure whether the author thought this story would blow up like it did. (And yeah, the article does start slow, but I think that’s mostly driven by the author’s desire to really clarify and explain his complicated relationship to the organisers.)
- Gracana 13y agoI appreciated the backstory about the author. It explained his connection with the organizations and people involved, and I think that helped give weight to what he said.
- NoPiece 13y agoI found these two articles on the subject alittle easier to follow: http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ZoeQuinn/20140331/214325/Unreality_My_Takeaways_After_Being_On_and_Subsequently_Walking_Off_a_Reality_Show_About_Game_Jams.php http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ZoeQuinn/20140331/214325/Unre...
- araftery 13y agoThe purple writing is really distracting.
- PhasmaFelis 13y agoIt sounds like both this Matti Leshem person and the legal team that drew up the awful contracts (which Rosen softpedals a bit, as "standard practice" and unlikely to "actually [be] pursued," as if those excuse anything) thought they were working with stereotypical reality-show contestants, i.e. people so desperate for fame that they'd put up with any kind of horrible shit for a shot at the limelight. It must have been a bit of a shock to discover that their "stars" weren't interested in playing the Hollywood game.
- elpool2 13y agoI got the same impression. I am sure that pushing people's buttons and trying to start fights between people is standard procedure on most reality TV shows. But it's a bit different when the contestants are professionals who are there mostly just to share their craft, and don't care at all about being a star or winning the prize.
- darksim905 13y agoWhy not just go to the source of someone that was there? http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 The sad part is, someone suggested to a few people on Reddit that people look into Game Jams if one is serious about coding games, stuff like that. Makes me much more skeptical to do that now.
- JabavuAdams 13y agoThis does not sound like a typical game jam. You should definitely jam. It's a great way to carve out some time for a project, and also a great way to meet people who you might end up working with. Check out the original indie game jam: http://www.indiegamejam.com/igj0/ http://www.indiegamejam.com/igj0/
- ijk 13y agoThis was highly atypical for a game jam, which is part of why it failed so spectacularly. Here's some of the major organized game jams, if you'd like a better picture: Ludum Dare: http://www.ludumdare.com/ http://www.ludumdare.com/ Global Game Jam: http://globalgamejam.org/ http://globalgamejam.org/
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- disillusioned 13y agoWow is that some tortured writing. This paragraph needs serious help: > To say there is an uncomfortable air of fear in security is one (perhaps overblown) thing. To see the largest and only production of its kind, with hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line and an entire secondary production company locked in silent rapture under lit signage for Mountain Dew, the entire project gloriously rupturing like the belly of the Bismark – that is another. To be ushered by muted fear and nervous glances, to stand in desolate directors rooms filled with black screens and empty chairs. Darkened judging stands. Color-coded team challenge floors, soon to be dismantled, but left intact in the hopes that some shimmering archangel would descend and reinvigorate the eleven indie developers currently revolting against Maker Studios inside their rented Winnebagos.
- jamesjguthrie 13y agoI gave up after this point and came here for the TL;DR.
- sfjailbird 13y agoCame here to check if I was the only one. It was utterly incomprehensible, made all the worse by the author being so full of himself.
- nl 13y agoThis is one of the most uplifting and positive stories I've read via HN. Whilst I understand that's probably not the most common take-away, I read it as a story of how software development is slowly changing to a field where sexism is no longer acceptable. I think it is fantastic that the developers stood up to Matti, and refused to give him the story he was looking for. People will continue to argue all they like over if software development is a meritocracy and/or if different genders have differing natural inclinations towards the field. All I know is that on that day there were two female developers who had gained enough respect from their peers that no one would fall into the trap of "providing a story" for the show. I think that does all the developers involved credit. Edit: Adriel Wallick (one of the developers involved) has written a blog post about it. I thought this bit was great: I will not put my face and my “stamp of approval” on something where this is even a question. No, we are not at an advantage because we have women on our team and no, we are not at a disadvantage because we have women on our team. We all have advantages and disadvantages because of our varying skills and strengths. Having the audacity to be a woman does not hinder nor help any of these things. Being a woman simply means that we are women. http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187
- fleitz 13y agoYeah, it's strange that they had to be smiling while holding the product, but misogyny was a completely fine thing to pair the brand with. Is Mountain Dew not fairing well with the minsogynst demo?
- ginko 13y ago> http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 http://msminotaur.com/blog/?p=187 Really interesting read, but now my eyes hurt.
- rubinelli 13y agoSame post, on the much more readable Gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdrielWallick/20140331/214258/Lets_talk_about_accountability.php http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdrielWallick/20140331/214258...
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- okonomiyaki3000 13y agoWhat language is this written in? I can't understand what it's about. Games or something?
- wmt 13y agoHere's a story from just a few days ago telling how PepsiCo and Matti Leshem are announcing they’ll continue collaborating as they celebrate a 10-year anniversary. http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/pepsi-stuck-third-slot-149779 http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/pepsi-stuck-... Angelique Krembs, VP of marketing at PepsiCo, also talks about Matti: “It makes us work at a higher level because we have that history. I cannot imagine not having Mattie[sic] to help solve our big problems or bounce things off of.” Matti was most definitely not fired, and will be leading PepsiCos marketing and branding efforts. When you see Mountain Dew or Pepsi, just always remember that you can support Matti by buying a can!
- servowire 13y agoSo much drama.
- joeevans 13y agoThe article would lead one to conclude the people behind the show will clean up their act and come back with a more sensitive approach. An alternative possibility is that they will simply keep the format, but find another less discerning group of developers. I think the latter possibility is the more likely one, and all developers would suffer as a result of the ensuing portrayal.
- stcredzero 13y agothe entire project gloriously rupturing like the belly of the Bismark By the time the last British torpedo hit the Bismarck, the ship was listing so far over, some observers thought the torpedo hit the port side superstructure -- in other words, the top of the warship. There is some debate over whether the Bismarck was sunk by torpedoes at all, or if it was sunk by scuttling charges installed by the crew.