6 ms·

Another great step along the way towards a compacting GC. I wonder how much more memory can actually be saved in Firefox.

ksec 13y ago
Does it matter? At first we wanted GGC, or CGGC because we want Firefox to be Snappy. We wanted Project Async because we want it to be Snappy. But after all the bugfixes and everything Firefox is still no snappy. And they landed that Hideous Australis UI.
- grandpoobah 13y ago
  Personally one of the main things keeping me from switching back to Firefox, as a current Chrome user, is the existing UI. I love Australis and I can't wait for it to go stable.
  - alptrv 13y ago
    The great thing about Firefox is that it is completely customisable. You could use a theme like this https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/fxchrome/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/fxchrome/ I personally like it even more than Australis
    - Pacabel 13y ago
      It's good that Firefox can be customized, for sure. But I'm finding that after each major release these days, I need to perform more and more customization just to bring it back to a usable state. I want a practical browser that does what I need it to. Yet with each new release of Firefox we tend to see further useful functionality stripped away, additional config panel options removed, and the UI dumbed down in one way or another. So whenever an update happens, it's off to searching for add-ons to basically undo whatever unhelpful changes the developers have just made. Add-ons and customization should be there to enhance and already good piece of software. They shouldn't be there as band-aid that's applied to fix the numerous mistakes and bad decisions of the software's developers.
      - sanxiyn 13y ago
        I gave up on config panel removals and UI dumb downs and now configure Firefox solely using about:config. I recommend you this approach. You will get much less annoyed.
        Pacabel 13y ago
        You're right, that is generally a better option these days. Unfortunately, it still does suffer from the same problem, to some extent. Settings are sometimes renamed, and then it takes some time and effort to track down the new name, assuming the setting (or an equivalent) still even exists.
      - Spittie 13y ago
        Funny, we're having the exact opposite experience. I find that with every release of Firefox, I need less and less addons. Better dev tools? Okay, goodbye Firebug. Download popover instead of a different window? Goodbye DownloadStatusBar. Australis? Goodbye Firefox-button mover and FXChrome (I use Tree Style Tabs, but FXChrome make everything else look prettier anyway).
  - nly 13y ago
    I'm the opposite. Chromes UI is awful. Doesn't scale for non-standard DPI screens, ghastly colour scheme, and the integrated Window decorations are primitive. In KDE I can hide the FF window decorations, and it then uses no more real estate than Chrome, while still offering a better native UI. I'm just crossing my fingers that any UI changes in FF don't negatively impact us Linux users or drift too far away from native widgets.
    - hapless 13y ago
      Right now, Firefox is the only browser on Linux that supports non-standard DPIs.
      - emn13 13y ago
        It's not really any different on windows; chrome's UI there too isn't brilliant (I've got a high dpi screen). It's much better than a year ago, when everything was simply blurry, but it's still much worse than FF or IE.
    - Pxtl 13y ago
      Exactly. I was fiddling with non-standard DPIs on my machine and I noticed that Chrome trainwrecks on them, and Firefox looks great. I get frustrated because all the people who complain about the new Ausrtalis UI seem to want to drag FF back to the oldschool Netscape/IE6-looking thing. I think FF's UI is in a perfect place in the current version - clean, crisp, and compact. My only complaint about current FF is the redundant "bookmark-star" button in the Address bar that I'm constantly accidentally clicking.
      - cpeterso 13y ago
        Good news: Australis moves the bookmark star out of the address bar into the toolbar. You can then customize your toolbar to remove tha bookmark star button, if you like. I did. :)
        zanny 13y ago
- agapos 13y ago
  Both Snappy and Async helped to a degree, if you experience none of it, test your profile for problems, or sit back and wait either for e10s or Servo.
- lcnmrn 13y ago
  As a designer, I agree that Australis UI is horrible. They made a touch screen interface and slapped it on desktop. It uses all the touch screen patterns a desktop interface should not have. In order to fix it, they first should provide a compact version: same button sizes on the toolbar, smaller and better looking tabs, less wasted space between interface items.
  - _pmf_ 13y ago
    > They made a touch screen interface and slapped it on desktop. Which would be justifiable (not good, but justifiable) if there was a tablet where Firefox would actually be usable.
  - illumen 13y ago
    More and more desktops have touch screens now. For the last couple of years this has been a trend. Also, some desktop OS's support touch quite well. So you better update your terminology, since desktop does touch. Whilst the new UI is a little bit of an improvement on touch devices, it still kind of sucks. The main problem is the poor scrolling performance of FF though.
    - agapos 13y ago
      Still, degrading the desktop experience for 99% of the users for the sake of 1% is not a smart move (#1). Yet, we see it more and more often. (Even more so with websites.) Sure, they can make a touch-friendly interface, but they should just put in behind a flip switch in the options. Using the mouse for half a minute to enable it will not break anyone's hands. Best way to feed the goat and keep the cabbage. #1: guessed the numbers, but I will eat my non-existing hat if the touch screen monitors are over 5%
  - deckiedan 13y ago
    Interesting - I find the Australis (on linux & OSX) cleaner and takes up less screenspace. I wonder what we're doing differently...
    - 13y ago
- 616c 13y ago
  I know Mozilla cannot please everyone, and I understand you are probably not going to change your convictions, but I think your attitude towards this browser and their work is pretty rude. Mozilla, fighting against a current to open source the only proprietary competition to Internet Explorer in its day, has spent over a decade improving a lot of old, ugly code, and making not just a good (maybe not great to you, even if it is to me; I will try to word it fairly) browser, but a spate of technological advances and solid policy positions. Chrome and Google might be the new hotness, but I respect how much Mozilla has done with Firefox, and how they take their time to make the right choices (to them, you might not agree; that is ok). And if you think moving the whole underlying architecture of a widely distributed browser is an easier milestone than changing a skin that runs an easily prototyped UI in Javascript (XULRunner), I strongly encourage you to download the source, read the very solid documentation, talk to the community, and compile. I know your attitude re Firefox is commonplace, but as a younger hacker I am disappointed how people think their more-than-a-decade long project to build a browser is just not fast enough. Now only if they would get their crap together with the X11 server ... (Yes, that was a joke, just to be clear.)
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    I can't actually use Firefox because of two very annoying problems. * Hitching and lagging coinciding with dumping tons of garbage into my syslog [1] * A six year old bug whereby duplicate SSL certs result in a page not being able to be viewed. No override, no nothing. [2] Meanwhile, the Chrome UI is minimal but fast, and doesn't seem to have fallen victim to the "redesign for redesign's sake" that seems to be plaguing many open source projects (Australis is downright ghastly), my required plugins work without the lag, and bugs that hamper basic functionality don't sit around unfixed for half a decade! Or even a full decade in some cases!! [3] Maybe I sound entitled, but that second bug in particular is downright infuriating (HP iLO simply cannot be used), and the fact that it's been sitting untouched has unfortunate implications for the dev culture at Mozilla. And don't say it's been forgotten about in a backlog either - read the history and you'll see instances of tickets being marked a duplicate of this one, so the awareness is there. Firefox may be an amazing hammer, but I can't use it and can't recommend anybody else does either until it stops embedding splinters in my hands. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/984296 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/984296 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013#c15 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013#c15 [3] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013 Huh, first time I've ever been downvoted for saying that bugs suck.

ksec 13y ago

Does it matter? At first we wanted GGC, or CGGC because we want Firefox to be Snappy. We wanted Project Async because we want it to be Snappy. But after all the bugfixes and everything Firefox is still no snappy. And they landed that Hideous Australis UI.

grandpoobah 13y ago
Personally one of the main things keeping me from switching back to Firefox, as a current Chrome user, is the existing UI. I love Australis and I can't wait for it to go stable.
- alptrv 13y ago
  The great thing about Firefox is that it is completely customisable. You could use a theme like this https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/fxchrome/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/fxchrome/ I personally like it even more than Australis
  - Pacabel 13y ago
    It's good that Firefox can be customized, for sure. But I'm finding that after each major release these days, I need to perform more and more customization just to bring it back to a usable state. I want a practical browser that does what I need it to. Yet with each new release of Firefox we tend to see further useful functionality stripped away, additional config panel options removed, and the UI dumbed down in one way or another. So whenever an update happens, it's off to searching for add-ons to basically undo whatever unhelpful changes the developers have just made. Add-ons and customization should be there to enhance and already good piece of software. They shouldn't be there as band-aid that's applied to fix the numerous mistakes and bad decisions of the software's developers.
    - sanxiyn 13y ago
      I gave up on config panel removals and UI dumb downs and now configure Firefox solely using about:config. I recommend you this approach. You will get much less annoyed.
      - Pacabel 13y ago
        You're right, that is generally a better option these days. Unfortunately, it still does suffer from the same problem, to some extent. Settings are sometimes renamed, and then it takes some time and effort to track down the new name, assuming the setting (or an equivalent) still even exists.
    - Spittie 13y ago
      Funny, we're having the exact opposite experience. I find that with every release of Firefox, I need less and less addons. Better dev tools? Okay, goodbye Firebug. Download popover instead of a different window? Goodbye DownloadStatusBar. Australis? Goodbye Firefox-button mover and FXChrome (I use Tree Style Tabs, but FXChrome make everything else look prettier anyway).
- nly 13y ago
  I'm the opposite. Chromes UI is awful. Doesn't scale for non-standard DPI screens, ghastly colour scheme, and the integrated Window decorations are primitive. In KDE I can hide the FF window decorations, and it then uses no more real estate than Chrome, while still offering a better native UI. I'm just crossing my fingers that any UI changes in FF don't negatively impact us Linux users or drift too far away from native widgets.
  - hapless 13y ago
    Right now, Firefox is the only browser on Linux that supports non-standard DPIs.
    - emn13 13y ago
      It's not really any different on windows; chrome's UI there too isn't brilliant (I've got a high dpi screen). It's much better than a year ago, when everything was simply blurry, but it's still much worse than FF or IE.
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Exactly. I was fiddling with non-standard DPIs on my machine and I noticed that Chrome trainwrecks on them, and Firefox looks great. I get frustrated because all the people who complain about the new Ausrtalis UI seem to want to drag FF back to the oldschool Netscape/IE6-looking thing. I think FF's UI is in a perfect place in the current version - clean, crisp, and compact. My only complaint about current FF is the redundant "bookmark-star" button in the Address bar that I'm constantly accidentally clicking.
    - cpeterso 13y ago
      Good news: Australis moves the bookmark star out of the address bar into the toolbar. You can then customize your toolbar to remove tha bookmark star button, if you like. I did. :)
      - zanny 13y ago
agapos 13y ago
Both Snappy and Async helped to a degree, if you experience none of it, test your profile for problems, or sit back and wait either for e10s or Servo.
lcnmrn 13y ago
As a designer, I agree that Australis UI is horrible. They made a touch screen interface and slapped it on desktop. It uses all the touch screen patterns a desktop interface should not have. In order to fix it, they first should provide a compact version: same button sizes on the toolbar, smaller and better looking tabs, less wasted space between interface items.
- _pmf_ 13y ago
  > They made a touch screen interface and slapped it on desktop. Which would be justifiable (not good, but justifiable) if there was a tablet where Firefox would actually be usable.
- illumen 13y ago
  More and more desktops have touch screens now. For the last couple of years this has been a trend. Also, some desktop OS's support touch quite well. So you better update your terminology, since desktop does touch. Whilst the new UI is a little bit of an improvement on touch devices, it still kind of sucks. The main problem is the poor scrolling performance of FF though.
  - agapos 13y ago
    Still, degrading the desktop experience for 99% of the users for the sake of 1% is not a smart move (#1). Yet, we see it more and more often. (Even more so with websites.) Sure, they can make a touch-friendly interface, but they should just put in behind a flip switch in the options. Using the mouse for half a minute to enable it will not break anyone's hands. Best way to feed the goat and keep the cabbage. #1: guessed the numbers, but I will eat my non-existing hat if the touch screen monitors are over 5%
- deckiedan 13y ago
  Interesting - I find the Australis (on linux & OSX) cleaner and takes up less screenspace. I wonder what we're doing differently...
  - 13y ago
616c 13y ago
I know Mozilla cannot please everyone, and I understand you are probably not going to change your convictions, but I think your attitude towards this browser and their work is pretty rude. Mozilla, fighting against a current to open source the only proprietary competition to Internet Explorer in its day, has spent over a decade improving a lot of old, ugly code, and making not just a good (maybe not great to you, even if it is to me; I will try to word it fairly) browser, but a spate of technological advances and solid policy positions. Chrome and Google might be the new hotness, but I respect how much Mozilla has done with Firefox, and how they take their time to make the right choices (to them, you might not agree; that is ok). And if you think moving the whole underlying architecture of a widely distributed browser is an easier milestone than changing a skin that runs an easily prototyped UI in Javascript (XULRunner), I strongly encourage you to download the source, read the very solid documentation, talk to the community, and compile. I know your attitude re Firefox is commonplace, but as a younger hacker I am disappointed how people think their more-than-a-decade long project to build a browser is just not fast enough. Now only if they would get their crap together with the X11 server ... (Yes, that was a joke, just to be clear.)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- Karunamon 13y ago
  I can't actually use Firefox because of two very annoying problems. * Hitching and lagging coinciding with dumping tons of garbage into my syslog [1] * A six year old bug whereby duplicate SSL certs result in a page not being able to be viewed. No override, no nothing. [2] Meanwhile, the Chrome UI is minimal but fast, and doesn't seem to have fallen victim to the "redesign for redesign's sake" that seems to be plaguing many open source projects (Australis is downright ghastly), my required plugins work without the lag, and bugs that hamper basic functionality don't sit around unfixed for half a decade! Or even a full decade in some cases!! [3] Maybe I sound entitled, but that second bug in particular is downright infuriating (HP iLO simply cannot be used), and the fact that it's been sitting untouched has unfortunate implications for the dev culture at Mozilla. And don't say it's been forgotten about in a backlog either - read the history and you'll see instances of tickets being marked a duplicate of this one, so the awareness is there. Firefox may be an amazing hammer, but I can't use it and can't recommend anybody else does either until it stops embedding splinters in my hands. [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/984296 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/984296 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013#c15 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013#c15 [3] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013 Huh, first time I've ever been downvoted for saying that bugs suck.