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With the endless and quite arbitrary rules and limitations they impose on the F1 cars each year I sometimes wonder what would happen if they hadn't done that. W

by yason 13y ago

With the endless and quite arbitrary rules and limitations they impose on the F1 cars each year I sometimes wonder what would happen if they hadn't done that. What would the teams have built if it weren't for the weigh, power, and technology limitations shaping the development? I see an analogy to evolution versus controlled genetic reproduction: what would the F1 cars look like and how would they behave if the only thing that mattered was being the fastest and winning races?

fatrachet 13y ago
Red Bull made a very interesting concept car a few years ago along that line of thought. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010
mwg66 13y ago
It would be difficult to ensure the safety of participants and spectators if there was entirely free regulations. Don't underestimate quite how fast a Formula 1 car is now, even within the current regulations. Formula 1 has made significant contributions to the safety of motorsports over the last two decades and much of this is due to the continual improvement and unequivocal dedication to preventing accidents. If you've never seen Kubica's accident from 2007 in Canada, it's amongst the best demonstrations of how safety has advanced in F1 (note Kubica was released from hospital the next day, unhurt). (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1_POQPJVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1_POQPJVw)
- DVassallo 13y ago
  Agreed. Kubica hit that concrete barrier at 300KM/h at a 75 degree angle, and was subject to a peak g-force of 75G. He emerged with just a light concussion and a sprained ankle. [1] At the time, I wasn't even aware that humans could survive peak G's that high. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kubica#2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kubica#2007
DVassallo 13y ago
One team would very likey dominate, and then all the other teams would quit. After all, these teams are backed by shareholders which continuously question the ROI of participating in the sport.
ggreer 13y ago
If you gave an F1 team their same budget with no restrictions, you would get an incomprehensibly fast car. I'd bet on them going with 6 wheels: 4 in front, two in back for more traction when turning and braking, similar to the Tyrrell P34.[1] They'd likely use ground effect with fans to provide active downforce, similar to the Brabham BT46B.[2] It would probably be driven by electric motors in each wheel. The power source would be a gas turbine attached to a generator. It would be a death trap. If the suction fan malfunctioned, all downforce would be lost and the car would skid off the track. G forces when accelerating, braking, and turning would quickly injure even the toughest human being. Going around any track would require superhuman reaction times. Such a vehicle could only be controlled by a computer. Also, such a vehicle could only be painted plaid. I'm not sure how profitable or safe this hypothetical series would be, but I'd certainly watch the first couple of races. Then again, I'd also watch cyborg kickboxing in some future version of the Paralympics. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_P34 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_P34 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2.A0.E2.80.93_the_.22fan_car.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2....
- newman314 13y ago
  You would probably end up with something like the Red Bull X2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010 The digital creation was a response to Kazunori Yamauchi's question: "If you built the fastest racing car on land, one that throws aside all rules and regulations, what would that car look like, how would it perform, and how would it feel to drive?"
  - _pmf_ 13y ago
    > "If you built the fastest racing car on land, one that throws aside all rules and regulations, what would that car look like, how would it perform, and how would it feel to drive?" The big question is whether it would qualify as a "car".
- liotier 13y ago
  Get rid of the human pilot - get the engineering teams compete with fully autonomous cars, maybe with the team feeding it strategic directives during the race. I would certainly love reading about it, though I acknowledge that the lack of human drama would make poor advertising copy...
rangibaby 13y ago
You might end up with the equivalent of Group B rally cars from the 80s: Too powerful, too dangerous, and too awesome! http://youtu.be/0fskgShipUY http://youtu.be/0fskgShipUY
- Dale1 13y ago
  Yes i was thinking about the Group B cars too.
kayoone 13y ago
they would probably have AI drivers by now :)

by yason 13y ago

fatrachet 13y ago

Red Bull made a very interesting concept car a few years ago along that line of thought. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010

mwg66 13y ago

It would be difficult to ensure the safety of participants and spectators if there was entirely free regulations. Don't underestimate quite how fast a Formula 1 car is now, even within the current regulations. Formula 1 has made significant contributions to the safety of motorsports over the last two decades and much of this is due to the continual improvement and unequivocal dedication to preventing accidents. If you've never seen Kubica's accident from 2007 in Canada, it's amongst the best demonstrations of how safety has advanced in F1 (note Kubica was released from hospital the next day, unhurt). (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1_POQPJVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1_POQPJVw)

DVassallo 13y ago
Agreed. Kubica hit that concrete barrier at 300KM/h at a 75 degree angle, and was subject to a peak g-force of 75G. He emerged with just a light concussion and a sprained ankle. [1] At the time, I wasn't even aware that humans could survive peak G's that high. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kubica#2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kubica#2007

DVassallo 13y ago

One team would very likey dominate, and then all the other teams would quit. After all, these teams are backed by shareholders which continuously question the ROI of participating in the sport.

ggreer 13y ago

If you gave an F1 team their same budget with no restrictions, you would get an incomprehensibly fast car. I'd bet on them going with 6 wheels: 4 in front, two in back for more traction when turning and braking, similar to the Tyrrell P34.[1] They'd likely use ground effect with fans to provide active downforce, similar to the Brabham BT46B.[2] It would probably be driven by electric motors in each wheel. The power source would be a gas turbine attached to a generator. It would be a death trap. If the suction fan malfunctioned, all downforce would be lost and the car would skid off the track. G forces when accelerating, braking, and turning would quickly injure even the toughest human being. Going around any track would require superhuman reaction times. Such a vehicle could only be controlled by a computer. Also, such a vehicle could only be painted plaid. I'm not sure how profitable or safe this hypothetical series would be, but I'd certainly watch the first couple of races. Then again, I'd also watch cyborg kickboxing in some future version of the Paralympics. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_P34 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrrell_P34 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2.A0.E2.80.93_the_.22fan_car.22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B.C2....

newman314 13y ago
You would probably end up with something like the Red Bull X2010. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_X2010 The digital creation was a response to Kazunori Yamauchi's question: "If you built the fastest racing car on land, one that throws aside all rules and regulations, what would that car look like, how would it perform, and how would it feel to drive?"
- _pmf_ 13y ago
  > "If you built the fastest racing car on land, one that throws aside all rules and regulations, what would that car look like, how would it perform, and how would it feel to drive?" The big question is whether it would qualify as a "car".
liotier 13y ago
Get rid of the human pilot - get the engineering teams compete with fully autonomous cars, maybe with the team feeding it strategic directives during the race. I would certainly love reading about it, though I acknowledge that the lack of human drama would make poor advertising copy...

rangibaby 13y ago

You might end up with the equivalent of Group B rally cars from the 80s: Too powerful, too dangerous, and too awesome! http://youtu.be/0fskgShipUY http://youtu.be/0fskgShipUY

Dale1 13y ago
Yes i was thinking about the Group B cars too.

kayoone 13y ago

they would probably have AI drivers by now :)