3 ms·

What is the "Other" gender?

pbhj 17y ago
It's a pretty good question. Assuming he meant "sex" (based on the original question form). There's XX, XY and some chromosomal abnormalities that are usually called "intersex" AFAIR. Perhaps the question should have been do you have an SRY gene on a Y chromosome - or (nearly equivalent) "did you have at least one testis at birth". Which would probably be closest to the questioners intent.
- callahad 17y ago
  Based on my reading of the question, I think its intent is not to ascertain biological sex, but rather gender identity. Asking the question about sex tells you about the person's genitals. Asking the question about gender tells you who that person is, which I believe to be the more useful question. If a person dresses, acts, and thinks of themselves as a male would, would it be useful to know what chromosomes that person has?
  - ivanstojic 17y ago
    I believe that we're generally speaking advanced enough as a society that men and women are accepted as equals by a majority. That being given, when someone asks about gender or sex, I'm assuming that they are in fact interested in my biological properties, not my self-identification (which is/should be obvious).
    - DavidSJ 17y ago
      Obvious face-to-face, maybe.
    - pbhj 17y ago
      Men and women are not equal and never will be.
      - lionhearted 17y ago
        I'm surprised you haven't been downmodded unto oblivion - your idea is quite unpopular these days. Perhaps even "What You Can't Say" unpopular territory: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html A Harvard President lost his job over remarks similar to what you just made. And yet, we could observe that in aggregate, men and women have different hormone balances, biochemistry, reproductive systems, feel different degrees of different emotions, account for very different sorts and frequencies of crime, purchase very different products and services, and so on and so forth. So yes, while you are factually correct in many ways, I am surprised you are still standing. The idea is not a pleasant one to most people. Perhaps because it can too easily be carried too far, or misapplied, or that the generalization will be mis-applied to a particular individual who will be offended, and certainly our society puts a very high premium on not offending anyone. Or maybe I am off in my thinking, but truth aside, I remain surprised that you have not piled on for making such a comment.
        olliesaunders 17y ago
        I think you greatly exaggerate the taboo here. I've spoken with men and women about issues of gender inequality. Men and women are not identical, there are situations when they should not be treated the same. I think it's a shame people incorrectly treat them the same because of fear of being labelled sexist where there are generally differences in behavioural preferences between men and women, most obviously when you observe body language. There are very reliable statistics that show pay discrepancies in the favour of men. For discussion of that to be taboo would be very bad.
    - WinterAyars 17y ago
      "(which is/should be obvious)" Not always as obvious as you might think! It's the exceptions that are important, here. Shouldn't your biology actually be more obvious than your gender? I mean, being somewhat of a devil's advocate here.
- ivanstojic 17y ago
  For some reason, I find the question "did you have at least one testis at birth" incredibly funny. I can imagine an almost Monty Pythonian moment where I would find that question on a government form of some sort.
  - WinterAyars 17y ago
    It's a last resort sort of question for when you're desperate. Monty Pythonian, sure, but that sort of question has really hurt people, unfortunately.
- WinterAyars 17y ago
  There are a variety of conditions that usually fall into "intersex", from XY females (who usually identify as female and would typically pick the female option as that's how they typically (again: typically, they're perfectly justified in choosing "other" or "transgender" and arguably justified in choosing "male") prefer to describe themselves) to chimeras (who can be damn near anything) or the like. "Other" could also be someone who has modified their sex, but is not "transgender" or at least not comfortable self-describing that way (androgynes, certain lesbians, etc) or someone who does not fit into the binary gender scheme in general. (If we're talking gender.) "Transgender" is pretty straightforward.
PhantomCowboy 17y ago
It's for robots. Come on, this is HN, you don't think humans are they only ones here do you?

pbhj 17y ago

It's a pretty good question. Assuming he meant "sex" (based on the original question form). There's XX, XY and some chromosomal abnormalities that are usually called "intersex" AFAIR. Perhaps the question should have been do you have an SRY gene on a Y chromosome - or (nearly equivalent) "did you have at least one testis at birth". Which would probably be closest to the questioners intent.

callahad 17y ago
Based on my reading of the question, I think its intent is not to ascertain biological sex, but rather gender identity. Asking the question about sex tells you about the person's genitals. Asking the question about gender tells you who that person is, which I believe to be the more useful question. If a person dresses, acts, and thinks of themselves as a male would, would it be useful to know what chromosomes that person has?
- ivanstojic 17y ago
  I believe that we're generally speaking advanced enough as a society that men and women are accepted as equals by a majority. That being given, when someone asks about gender or sex, I'm assuming that they are in fact interested in my biological properties, not my self-identification (which is/should be obvious).
  - DavidSJ 17y ago
    Obvious face-to-face, maybe.
  - pbhj 17y ago
    Men and women are not equal and never will be.
    - lionhearted 17y ago
      I'm surprised you haven't been downmodded unto oblivion - your idea is quite unpopular these days. Perhaps even "What You Can't Say" unpopular territory: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html A Harvard President lost his job over remarks similar to what you just made. And yet, we could observe that in aggregate, men and women have different hormone balances, biochemistry, reproductive systems, feel different degrees of different emotions, account for very different sorts and frequencies of crime, purchase very different products and services, and so on and so forth. So yes, while you are factually correct in many ways, I am surprised you are still standing. The idea is not a pleasant one to most people. Perhaps because it can too easily be carried too far, or misapplied, or that the generalization will be mis-applied to a particular individual who will be offended, and certainly our society puts a very high premium on not offending anyone. Or maybe I am off in my thinking, but truth aside, I remain surprised that you have not piled on for making such a comment.
      - olliesaunders 17y ago
        I think you greatly exaggerate the taboo here. I've spoken with men and women about issues of gender inequality. Men and women are not identical, there are situations when they should not be treated the same. I think it's a shame people incorrectly treat them the same because of fear of being labelled sexist where there are generally differences in behavioural preferences between men and women, most obviously when you observe body language. There are very reliable statistics that show pay discrepancies in the favour of men. For discussion of that to be taboo would be very bad.
  - WinterAyars 17y ago
    "(which is/should be obvious)" Not always as obvious as you might think! It's the exceptions that are important, here. Shouldn't your biology actually be more obvious than your gender? I mean, being somewhat of a devil's advocate here.
ivanstojic 17y ago
For some reason, I find the question "did you have at least one testis at birth" incredibly funny. I can imagine an almost Monty Pythonian moment where I would find that question on a government form of some sort.
- WinterAyars 17y ago
  It's a last resort sort of question for when you're desperate. Monty Pythonian, sure, but that sort of question has really hurt people, unfortunately.
WinterAyars 17y ago
There are a variety of conditions that usually fall into "intersex", from XY females (who usually identify as female and would typically pick the female option as that's how they typically (again: typically, they're perfectly justified in choosing "other" or "transgender" and arguably justified in choosing "male") prefer to describe themselves) to chimeras (who can be damn near anything) or the like. "Other" could also be someone who has modified their sex, but is not "transgender" or at least not comfortable self-describing that way (androgynes, certain lesbians, etc) or someone who does not fit into the binary gender scheme in general. (If we're talking gender.) "Transgender" is pretty straightforward.

PhantomCowboy 17y ago

It's for robots. Come on, this is HN, you don't think humans are they only ones here do you?