4 ms·

These men and women are signing up to protect us, at great personal physical (not to mention psychological) risk. They should absolutely earn a living wage that

by plg 13y ago

These men and women are signing up to protect us, at great personal physical (not to mention psychological) risk. They should absolutely earn a living wage that enables them to live in the community in which they serve.

ForHackernews 13y ago
Related: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/life-of-a-police-officer-medically-and-psychologically-ruinous/284324/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/life-of-a-...
rayiner 13y ago
So do members of the military and they get paid half as much.
- pyrrhotech 13y ago
  and cops all over the country who on average make 30-40k
- skyebook 13y ago
  I don't see anyone saying people in uniform shouldn't be making better wages.
- whyenot 13y ago
  Well, then they should get a pay raise. It's about time anyways. You can easily make $150k a year as a private contractor.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Numbers like that are likely to represent gross pay. Military personnel deployed to combat zones are meanwhile tax-exempt, and receive comprehensive benefits. The arithmetic for comparing deployed military and private contractors is probably similar to the comparison between full-time employees and freelancers.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  I think "enables them to live in the community in which they serve" is a key point that doesn't apply to military personnel in the same way.
nawitus 13y ago
I think they should be paid the market rate, just like everyone else.
- oh_sigh 13y ago
  What is the market rate for police officers? Where is the police officer market?
  - pyrrhotech 13y ago
    There is absolutely massive supply trying to get these high paying jobs. You can look at the number of applicants. Acceptance rates resemble those from Ivy league schools. I know because when I found out, I wanted to be a fire fighter. But then I realized that it's kinda like the mafia. You have to know someone on the inside to get in.
  - spikels 13y ago
    You seem to be unfamiliar with the meaning of "market" in an economics context. I highly recommend getting at least a basic understanding of economics and economic terminology. It is very helpful in understanding the world.
  - nawitus 13y ago
    You pay the minimum amount that gets a suitable candidate.
    - danielweber 13y ago
      A good way to test is to see how hard it is to find candidates. If few people are showing up, you aren't paying enough. If you have crowds of people camping in place two nights before for the jobs [1], you are paying too much. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Chip-Johnson-Oakland-mayor-intervenes-in-fire-3235253.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Chip-Johnson-Oakland-m... Too add insult to injury the people were chosen out of the crowd to get to apply, almost assuredly friends and family of existing fire fighters, but that's "just" a corruption issue, not the larger issue that demonstrates how much over market these rates are.
duairc 13y ago
I agree that people should earn a living wage that enables them to live in the community that they serve, but all cops are bastards[1]. [1]: http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/atoz/fuckpolice.php http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/atoz/fuckpolice.php
DaniFong 13y ago
In theory, yes. In practice I do not think we are doing nearly the job of ensuring quality protectors that the situation demands. Follow the link to read about a recent case of abuse by the SFPD. Notably, they beat up and put into solitary confinement a person who they acerbically associated with "wannabe billionaires" https://medium.com/human-parts/9f53ef6a1c10 https://medium.com/human-parts/9f53ef6a1c10 I am for supporting police with a good wage, but there are astonishing increases in police militarization and abuses of power. There should be a real balancing force, like with other professionals. One that works.
Zigurd 13y ago
> "These men and women are signing up to protect us..." There is a lot of propaganda to that effect, but most of their actual activity does not support that. Solution rates for strong-arm robbery and serious property crime are low, and the prisons are full of small-time drug sellers. It also makes no sense that police officers need to live in the municipality in which they work unless it would help reduce the crime rate.
FireBeyond 13y ago
Here's one to mull over... unless associated with a Fire Department, most EMTs working on ambulances are paid near minimum wage (sub $10/hr in most parts of the country). When I was working on private ambulances building experience, it was usually of great surprise to the baristas serving us coffee that they made more money than the person who provides emergency medical care when you dial 911.

by plg 13y ago

ForHackernews 13y ago

Related: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/life-of-a-police-officer-medically-and-psychologically-ruinous/284324/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/life-of-a-...

rayiner 13y ago

So do members of the military and they get paid half as much.

pyrrhotech 13y ago
and cops all over the country who on average make 30-40k
skyebook 13y ago
I don't see anyone saying people in uniform shouldn't be making better wages.
whyenot 13y ago
Well, then they should get a pay raise. It's about time anyways. You can easily make $150k a year as a private contractor.
- tptacek 13y ago
  Numbers like that are likely to represent gross pay. Military personnel deployed to combat zones are meanwhile tax-exempt, and receive comprehensive benefits. The arithmetic for comparing deployed military and private contractors is probably similar to the comparison between full-time employees and freelancers.
dllthomas 13y ago
I think "enables them to live in the community in which they serve" is a key point that doesn't apply to military personnel in the same way.

nawitus 13y ago

I think they should be paid the market rate, just like everyone else.

oh_sigh 13y ago
What is the market rate for police officers? Where is the police officer market?
- pyrrhotech 13y ago
  There is absolutely massive supply trying to get these high paying jobs. You can look at the number of applicants. Acceptance rates resemble those from Ivy league schools. I know because when I found out, I wanted to be a fire fighter. But then I realized that it's kinda like the mafia. You have to know someone on the inside to get in.
- spikels 13y ago
  You seem to be unfamiliar with the meaning of "market" in an economics context. I highly recommend getting at least a basic understanding of economics and economic terminology. It is very helpful in understanding the world.
- nawitus 13y ago
  You pay the minimum amount that gets a suitable candidate.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    A good way to test is to see how hard it is to find candidates. If few people are showing up, you aren't paying enough. If you have crowds of people camping in place two nights before for the jobs [1], you are paying too much. [1] http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Chip-Johnson-Oakland-mayor-intervenes-in-fire-3235253.php http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Chip-Johnson-Oakland-m... Too add insult to injury the people were chosen out of the crowd to get to apply, almost assuredly friends and family of existing fire fighters, but that's "just" a corruption issue, not the larger issue that demonstrates how much over market these rates are.

duairc 13y ago

I agree that people should earn a living wage that enables them to live in the community that they serve, but all cops are bastards[1]. [1]: http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/atoz/fuckpolice.php http://www.crimethinc.com/texts/atoz/fuckpolice.php

DaniFong 13y ago

In theory, yes. In practice I do not think we are doing nearly the job of ensuring quality protectors that the situation demands. Follow the link to read about a recent case of abuse by the SFPD. Notably, they beat up and put into solitary confinement a person who they acerbically associated with "wannabe billionaires" https://medium.com/human-parts/9f53ef6a1c10 https://medium.com/human-parts/9f53ef6a1c10 I am for supporting police with a good wage, but there are astonishing increases in police militarization and abuses of power. There should be a real balancing force, like with other professionals. One that works.

Zigurd 13y ago

> "These men and women are signing up to protect us..." There is a lot of propaganda to that effect, but most of their actual activity does not support that. Solution rates for strong-arm robbery and serious property crime are low, and the prisons are full of small-time drug sellers. It also makes no sense that police officers need to live in the municipality in which they work unless it would help reduce the crime rate.

FireBeyond 13y ago

Here's one to mull over... unless associated with a Fire Department, most EMTs working on ambulances are paid near minimum wage (sub $10/hr in most parts of the country). When I was working on private ambulances building experience, it was usually of great surprise to the baristas serving us coffee that they made more money than the person who provides emergency medical care when you dial 911.