4 ms·

That's because there is no need for concrete actions. Mozilla as a foundation/corporation never discriminated anyone, and they already have guidelines that prom

by Spittie 13y ago

That's because there is no need for concrete actions. Mozilla as a foundation/corporation never discriminated anyone, and they already have guidelines that promote equality.

thirsteh 13y ago
And then there's the part where they made someone who is absolutely, positively against the concept of gay people having the same rights as everybody else the figurehead of the organization.
- Spittie 13y ago
  I'm not saying that was a right move - But this is Brendan private view on the matter, which don't reflect the view of Mozilla, as stated by that post (and their guidelines). And Brendan already said that his private views won't get in the way of the views of Mozilla. I understand that some people want Brendan to step down from his position (and I'm going to guess he probably will soon-ish), but he was elected because he was considered the right guy for the job, and I don't see Mozilla firing him anytime soon, at least without giving him a chance.
  - thirsteh 13y ago
    I'm saying that, while that might fly as CTO or any other role of the organization, CEO is a role analagous to President. The personal views of the chief executive very much influence the entire organization, and therefore it should not be surprising that their personal life becomes part of their professional one.
    - tinalumfoil 13y ago
      Considering Gay Marriage and Programming are about as far away as 2 issues can get, I really doubt it will be a problem. They don't want to alienate anyone against gay marriage or anyone gay. Since this isn't possible because of how sensitive everyone is, they just chose the best person for the job.
    - azakai 13y ago
      Note the the Mozilla Corporation is controlled by the Mozilla Foundation. So the position of CEO of Mozilla is in fact under that of the chairperson of the foundation. If something is analogous to "president", it would be the latter one (held by Mitchell Baker), not the CEO.
      - thirsteh 13y ago
        I would say the president of the foundation (/the board) is analogous to the electoral college :)
        bzbarsky 13y ago
        No, not quite. For example, at Mozilla-wide gatherings (e.g the summit that happened last fall) the CEO of the Mozilla Corporation is the one who typically gives some sort of talk about general strategy, market positioning, product plans, but Mitchell Baker is the one who gives a talk on overarching organizational goals: things like what Mozilla stands for and which issues Mozilla should be trying to address as an organization. And so it is in day-to-day operation. Mitchell sets the "moral tone" much more than the CEO does; the CEO's largely involved with executing the Corporation's strategy. There is no real analogy to the US or other national government I know of here; the organizational setups are very different. I've been trying to think of something that would be somewhat similar, and so far all I've got is Moses and Aaron in the Book of Exodus, with Mitchell as Moses and the CEO as Aaron. Not a perfect analogy, but way closer than anything involving a President.
    - yeukhon 13y ago
      You seem to downplay politics. If both Senate and House pass a bill on gay marriage with absolute majority (say overwhelmingly over 80%), a President who chooses to veto such bill is to seek political suicide. Congress can then veto the President's veto. If Brendan Eich today discriminate gay employees or volunteers he will be under a public crisis and he will lose his hard work. Please put down the worry. If you keep on worrying, you will never stop. Anyone who disagree should be ready to answer questions like "what if he's against abortion? against H1B visa? against tax payer money to pay for college tuition, whether people should live with free software only or not?". You will never be able to find anyone who will agree with you on everything.
      - thirsteh 13y ago
        > If Brendan Eich today discriminate gay employees or volunteers he will be under a public crisis and he will lose his hard work. The reason why he is receiving so much criticism right now is that a lot of people don't think the date of the donation makes any difference. He should not be CEO of an "inclusive" organization.
        yeukhon 13y ago
        You are arguing the wrong thing. Here we are telling you to ignore his personal opinion. He is not going to commit a career scucide. If a President wants to get re-elected he will not veto on a bill that is overwhelmingly supported. If most Mozillians believe in marriage equality then Eich will not oppress the majority opinion and discriminate the gays as CEO. He can continue to do so as a citizen of US and as a resident of California. > He should not be CEO of an "inclusive" organization. You will get never that inclusiveness. Never. I am sure among the gays there are people who are pro-life over pro-choice and thus "discriminate" those who believe they have the right to freely choose what to do with their fetus. Supposed Eich is pro-gay but pro-life. Now he will be seen as non-inclusive by the pro-choice community. You are looking for someone who share the same view as you and those agree with you. What about those who disagree with you?
        deleted 13y ago
- akerl_ 13y ago
  If Mozilla was working to develop marriage laws, this would be totally relevant. But they aren't. I believe in marriage equality. I think Brendan's support of Prop 8 shows a stunning error of belief, and if he were being given a position of power over marriage laws, I would be part of the picket line against his appointment. But I do not require that all people in the world share my opinions on all subjects. Holding differing opinions, even those that offend me, and acting in support of those opinions, is not a crime. If he uses his position at Mozilla to oppress, then we should fight that. But he's stated that is not his intention: in much the same way that I respect his right to hold an opinion, he has stated he intends to respect Mozilla's commitment to equality.

by Spittie 13y ago

That's because there is no need for concrete actions. Mozilla as a foundation/corporation never discriminated anyone, and they already have guidelines that promote equality.

thirsteh 13y ago

And then there's the part where they made someone who is absolutely, positively against the concept of gay people having the same rights as everybody else the figurehead of the organization.

Spittie 13y ago
I'm not saying that was a right move - But this is Brendan private view on the matter, which don't reflect the view of Mozilla, as stated by that post (and their guidelines). And Brendan already said that his private views won't get in the way of the views of Mozilla. I understand that some people want Brendan to step down from his position (and I'm going to guess he probably will soon-ish), but he was elected because he was considered the right guy for the job, and I don't see Mozilla firing him anytime soon, at least without giving him a chance.
- thirsteh 13y ago
  I'm saying that, while that might fly as CTO or any other role of the organization, CEO is a role analagous to President. The personal views of the chief executive very much influence the entire organization, and therefore it should not be surprising that their personal life becomes part of their professional one.
  - tinalumfoil 13y ago
    Considering Gay Marriage and Programming are about as far away as 2 issues can get, I really doubt it will be a problem. They don't want to alienate anyone against gay marriage or anyone gay. Since this isn't possible because of how sensitive everyone is, they just chose the best person for the job.
  - azakai 13y ago
    Note the the Mozilla Corporation is controlled by the Mozilla Foundation. So the position of CEO of Mozilla is in fact under that of the chairperson of the foundation. If something is analogous to "president", it would be the latter one (held by Mitchell Baker), not the CEO.
    - thirsteh 13y ago
      I would say the president of the foundation (/the board) is analogous to the electoral college :)
      - bzbarsky 13y ago
        No, not quite. For example, at Mozilla-wide gatherings (e.g the summit that happened last fall) the CEO of the Mozilla Corporation is the one who typically gives some sort of talk about general strategy, market positioning, product plans, but Mitchell Baker is the one who gives a talk on overarching organizational goals: things like what Mozilla stands for and which issues Mozilla should be trying to address as an organization. And so it is in day-to-day operation. Mitchell sets the "moral tone" much more than the CEO does; the CEO's largely involved with executing the Corporation's strategy. There is no real analogy to the US or other national government I know of here; the organizational setups are very different. I've been trying to think of something that would be somewhat similar, and so far all I've got is Moses and Aaron in the Book of Exodus, with Mitchell as Moses and the CEO as Aaron. Not a perfect analogy, but way closer than anything involving a President.
  - yeukhon 13y ago
    You seem to downplay politics. If both Senate and House pass a bill on gay marriage with absolute majority (say overwhelmingly over 80%), a President who chooses to veto such bill is to seek political suicide. Congress can then veto the President's veto. If Brendan Eich today discriminate gay employees or volunteers he will be under a public crisis and he will lose his hard work. Please put down the worry. If you keep on worrying, you will never stop. Anyone who disagree should be ready to answer questions like "what if he's against abortion? against H1B visa? against tax payer money to pay for college tuition, whether people should live with free software only or not?". You will never be able to find anyone who will agree with you on everything.
    - thirsteh 13y ago
      > If Brendan Eich today discriminate gay employees or volunteers he will be under a public crisis and he will lose his hard work. The reason why he is receiving so much criticism right now is that a lot of people don't think the date of the donation makes any difference. He should not be CEO of an "inclusive" organization.
      - yeukhon 13y ago
        You are arguing the wrong thing. Here we are telling you to ignore his personal opinion. He is not going to commit a career scucide. If a President wants to get re-elected he will not veto on a bill that is overwhelmingly supported. If most Mozillians believe in marriage equality then Eich will not oppress the majority opinion and discriminate the gays as CEO. He can continue to do so as a citizen of US and as a resident of California. > He should not be CEO of an "inclusive" organization. You will get never that inclusiveness. Never. I am sure among the gays there are people who are pro-life over pro-choice and thus "discriminate" those who believe they have the right to freely choose what to do with their fetus. Supposed Eich is pro-gay but pro-life. Now he will be seen as non-inclusive by the pro-choice community. You are looking for someone who share the same view as you and those agree with you. What about those who disagree with you?
        deleted 13y ago
akerl_ 13y ago
If Mozilla was working to develop marriage laws, this would be totally relevant. But they aren't. I believe in marriage equality. I think Brendan's support of Prop 8 shows a stunning error of belief, and if he were being given a position of power over marriage laws, I would be part of the picket line against his appointment. But I do not require that all people in the world share my opinions on all subjects. Holding differing opinions, even those that offend me, and acting in support of those opinions, is not a crime. If he uses his position at Mozilla to oppress, then we should fight that. But he's stated that is not his intention: in much the same way that I respect his right to hold an opinion, he has stated he intends to respect Mozilla's commitment to equality.