4 ms·

Every day that goes by I am more convinced that the Twitter stream is the best way to communicate, as a brand and as a consumer. On Twitter, as in Facebook, I f

by antr 13y ago

Every day that goes by I am more convinced that the Twitter stream is the best way to communicate, as a brand and as a consumer. On Twitter, as in Facebook, I follow/like whatever brands I find interesting, engaging and resonate with my believes/interests. If I see that a brand does/say something I don't like, I simply unfollow/unlike. What Facebook is doing is (over)engineering how my relationship with brands/people are, and I don't like that. If I like Robert Scoble on Facebook it is because I want to see what he has to say, and my like should not just be another stat on on Scoble's total number of followers. Hence, my use of Twitter is significantly higher than that on FB. Facebook is digging itself into a big hole.

TillE 13y ago
Twitter could really use extra (optional) tools for managing different relationships, but I definitely agree that trying to algorithmically filter what I see is ultimately the wrong way to go with anything that resembles current social networks. Keep it simple, and use your clever algorithms to present me with concrete choices, rather than simply enforcing them with no input.
maxerickson 13y ago
Why do you want to engage with brands? I don't mean that to be antagonistic, I just don't have much understanding of that particular thing.
- antr 13y ago
  why? because I want to hear what they have to say, and by "engage" I don't mean to reply/contact them, but simply consumer their content with the occasional ping: i. News, I want to stay up to date: I like to follow Reuters, Associated Press, Financial Times, Pando, Recode ii. General interest: The Economist, National Geographic, Science Magazine, various Universities iii. Companies I use their products/services or find interesting and what to get their updates: IBM, Dropbox, Disney, TED, Formula 1 teams, Raspberry Pi, a bunch of airlines, hotel chains, etc
- impendia 13y ago
  I've been very surprised to notice this myself. But it really is true. Companies like Best Buy, Applebee's, Hilton each have over a million likes. Even much-maligned United Airlines has nearly 700,000.
- joelrunyon 13y ago
  Some brands are fun or interesting. Some I'm willingly give money to. Not all brands are faceless corporations.
- michaelt 13y ago
  Why do you want to engage with brands? It depends on the brand and the type of engagement on offer, obviously. If a band I like announces a tour, or an arts organization I like announces a new program of performances, or a software product I use daily announces a new feature or release, I'm interested to get an e-mail (in low volumes and strictly opt-in of course).
- JohnTHaller 13y ago
  You follow a band you like because you want to know about their upcoming performances and new music. You follow an artist you like to see new stuff they're working on and when they post it online. You follow your favorite family owned restaurant to see what specials they have and when they're doing a wine tasting. You follow your favorite local bar to find out when trivia night is. There are a ton of reasons to follow things that aren't friends. And Facebook was a great way to track all that stuff. Now, it isn't, because Facebook changed the algorithm. You can still find it if you manually click on the Pages Feed, which is handy for folks who know it's there. But most people don't, so most of what you take the time to post on Facebook as a business is barely seen by anyone.
  - notahacker 13y ago
    To be fair, half the time people sign up for purely symbolic reasons, or to participate in a "like us on Facebook to win.." competition and not necessarily because they want daily ads for $brand served to them in between their friends' baby pics and obscure links posted by some guy they once met at an airport. If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list...
    - lotharbot 13y ago
      > "If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list..." Or you follow them on social media because you use it more regularly than you use e-mail, or you find it more convenient.
      - notahacker 13y ago
        But the Facebook news feed has never been a reliable delivery mechanism for updates you actually want to receive, because there's always been a huge volume of content with imperfect filters in place; if you really want to check on a brand you either go direct to their Facebook page which is entirely unaffected by filter algorithms or follow them on Twitter or by email. Users who only ever saw a fraction of the brand communications in their main feed anyway aren't particularly upset by changes in the filter that mean they see an even smaller percentage (if they get more friend updates instead they might even see it as a net win). Brands whose free advertising reaches 1-2% of eyeballs rather than 10-20% of the ones upset here, as with the Gmail "promotions" tab. Eat24's marketing team aren't stupid: they know this which is why you don't get coupon offers on Facebook, you get meme graphics, jokes about food and pictures of pizza. You get coupon offers by email without the jokes or on Twitter with them. Edit: disagreement by downvoting is particularly lame when it comes without an explanation of why I'm supposedly wrong. You don't see everything that every person or brand has posted in your newsfeed, haven't done for a long time, and in practice wouldn't do without a lot of scrolling even if they didn't filter at all. Whether Facebook's intent in filtering Pages posts to your feed more aggressively than Friend posts to your feed is purely commercial, purely driven by user engagement metrics or something in between, it's hardly a new development or something that only applies to brands.
- kevincrane 13y ago
  Aside from the reasons everyone else listed, I've used it customer support too. I've reached out to bands to ask last minute questions about their shows and actually have a better response rate with getting in touch with AT&T over Twitter than via email or sometimes phone.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Customer service actually works on twitter. It seems weird, but it's a thing. Aside from that, "brand" isn't just some faceless megacorp, there are lots of other brands, including creators of all sorts like musicians, web comics, craft beer makers, and so on.
hnnewguy 13y ago
>Every day that goes by I am more convinced that the Twitter stream is the best way to communicate, as a brand and as a consumer As an avid Twitter consumer without a Facebook account, I agree with you...for now. But until Twitter actually makes enough money to support itself, let's not get too far ahead with the "they're doing it right!" argument. I see no way that they don't eventually end up in the same boat as Facebook, forcing promoters to compete for limited space.
prostoalex 13y ago
If you bookmark https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr for your starter page, the News Feed will go into "Recent Stories" mode, featuring everybody in reverse chronological order, equivalent of Twitter's feed.
- antr 13y ago
  great tip – many thanks

by antr 13y ago

TillE 13y ago

Twitter could really use extra (optional) tools for managing different relationships, but I definitely agree that trying to algorithmically filter what I see is ultimately the wrong way to go with anything that resembles current social networks. Keep it simple, and use your clever algorithms to present me with concrete choices, rather than simply enforcing them with no input.

maxerickson 13y ago

Why do you want to engage with brands? I don't mean that to be antagonistic, I just don't have much understanding of that particular thing.

antr 13y ago
why? because I want to hear what they have to say, and by "engage" I don't mean to reply/contact them, but simply consumer their content with the occasional ping: i. News, I want to stay up to date: I like to follow Reuters, Associated Press, Financial Times, Pando, Recode ii. General interest: The Economist, National Geographic, Science Magazine, various Universities iii. Companies I use their products/services or find interesting and what to get their updates: IBM, Dropbox, Disney, TED, Formula 1 teams, Raspberry Pi, a bunch of airlines, hotel chains, etc
impendia 13y ago
I've been very surprised to notice this myself. But it really is true. Companies like Best Buy, Applebee's, Hilton each have over a million likes. Even much-maligned United Airlines has nearly 700,000.
joelrunyon 13y ago
Some brands are fun or interesting. Some I'm willingly give money to. Not all brands are faceless corporations.
michaelt 13y ago
Why do you want to engage with brands? It depends on the brand and the type of engagement on offer, obviously. If a band I like announces a tour, or an arts organization I like announces a new program of performances, or a software product I use daily announces a new feature or release, I'm interested to get an e-mail (in low volumes and strictly opt-in of course).
JohnTHaller 13y ago
You follow a band you like because you want to know about their upcoming performances and new music. You follow an artist you like to see new stuff they're working on and when they post it online. You follow your favorite family owned restaurant to see what specials they have and when they're doing a wine tasting. You follow your favorite local bar to find out when trivia night is. There are a ton of reasons to follow things that aren't friends. And Facebook was a great way to track all that stuff. Now, it isn't, because Facebook changed the algorithm. You can still find it if you manually click on the Pages Feed, which is handy for folks who know it's there. But most people don't, so most of what you take the time to post on Facebook as a business is barely seen by anyone.
- notahacker 13y ago
  To be fair, half the time people sign up for purely symbolic reasons, or to participate in a "like us on Facebook to win.." competition and not necessarily because they want daily ads for $brand served to them in between their friends' baby pics and obscure links posted by some guy they once met at an airport. If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list...
  - lotharbot 13y ago
    > "If you really want regular updates from a vendor you sign up to their mailing list..." Or you follow them on social media because you use it more regularly than you use e-mail, or you find it more convenient.
    - notahacker 13y ago
      But the Facebook news feed has never been a reliable delivery mechanism for updates you actually want to receive, because there's always been a huge volume of content with imperfect filters in place; if you really want to check on a brand you either go direct to their Facebook page which is entirely unaffected by filter algorithms or follow them on Twitter or by email. Users who only ever saw a fraction of the brand communications in their main feed anyway aren't particularly upset by changes in the filter that mean they see an even smaller percentage (if they get more friend updates instead they might even see it as a net win). Brands whose free advertising reaches 1-2% of eyeballs rather than 10-20% of the ones upset here, as with the Gmail "promotions" tab. Eat24's marketing team aren't stupid: they know this which is why you don't get coupon offers on Facebook, you get meme graphics, jokes about food and pictures of pizza. You get coupon offers by email without the jokes or on Twitter with them. Edit: disagreement by downvoting is particularly lame when it comes without an explanation of why I'm supposedly wrong. You don't see everything that every person or brand has posted in your newsfeed, haven't done for a long time, and in practice wouldn't do without a lot of scrolling even if they didn't filter at all. Whether Facebook's intent in filtering Pages posts to your feed more aggressively than Friend posts to your feed is purely commercial, purely driven by user engagement metrics or something in between, it's hardly a new development or something that only applies to brands.
kevincrane 13y ago
Aside from the reasons everyone else listed, I've used it customer support too. I've reached out to bands to ask last minute questions about their shows and actually have a better response rate with getting in touch with AT&T over Twitter than via email or sometimes phone.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Customer service actually works on twitter. It seems weird, but it's a thing. Aside from that, "brand" isn't just some faceless megacorp, there are lots of other brands, including creators of all sorts like musicians, web comics, craft beer makers, and so on.

hnnewguy 13y ago

>Every day that goes by I am more convinced that the Twitter stream is the best way to communicate, as a brand and as a consumer As an avid Twitter consumer without a Facebook account, I agree with you...for now. But until Twitter actually makes enough money to support itself, let's not get too far ahead with the "they're doing it right!" argument. I see no way that they don't eventually end up in the same boat as Facebook, forcing promoters to compete for limited space.

prostoalex 13y ago

If you bookmark https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr https://www.facebook.com/?sk=h_chr for your starter page, the News Feed will go into "Recent Stories" mode, featuring everybody in reverse chronological order, equivalent of Twitter's feed.

antr 13y ago
great tip – many thanks