3 ms·

Does a (relatively small) monetary donation really deserve to be called a "toxic political action"...?

meritt 13y ago
Has he defended his support of a blatantly anti-gay measure? You cannot support hate groups and expect the world to just brush it off. Edit - Found his response: https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
CamperBob2 13y ago
I'm guessing you're not one of the people being discriminated against by Proposition 8. Am I right?
- snogglethorpe 13y ago
  You are correct, although I disagree(d) strongly with Proposition 8....
llamataboot 13y ago
What about a relatively small donation to the KKK or a neo-Nazi party? The issue isn't the size of the donation but taking a public stance in support of bigotry.
- jswinghammer 13y ago
  Given that such a donation would change the matter entirely your point isn't relevant. There is a massive number of people in this country that support his position (note: I'm not one of them). Calling them all bigots is a cheap way out of having actual conversations.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
    A bigot is a person with a bigoted opinion.
- mynameishere 13y ago
  http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politics/supreme-court-preview-obama/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politics/supreme-court-preview... President Barack Obama once believed marriage only was for one man and one woman. Was Obama once a supporter of the KKK? Do you people seriously not realize that gay "marriage" has been concocted into a moral imperative only very recently by the media? And that just a few years ago, not only was opposing it not bigotry, but being in support of it was completely loony tunes?
  - stormbrew 13y ago
    Yeah, it's all the media's fault! There aren't real people affected by these things, obviously. Just cartoon characters in our daily dose of Media Party Propaganda. Snark aside, this analogy will work when Brendan Eich changes his mind as Obama did. No one is saying he's forever doomed by his position in 2008, but if he still believes it people still have every right to disagree with him as vocally as they want.
  - wpietri 13y ago
    Once everybody was in favor of slavery, too. That people now have it right doesn't mean that the previous position was less wrong. I agree that this change has been unusually swift compared with, say, the shift on interracial marriage from "loony tunes" to unremarkable. But I think that's mainly because there isn't a ton of gay/straight segregation, not like racial segregation. Now that being in the closet isn't nearly as common, it's hard for people to take an abstract anti-gay position without facing the fact that it will hurt somebody's family member. But the legitimate question for any Mozilla employee or partner is: will I face discrimination from Mozilla's new CEO? Sure, Eich has promised to behave at work, but he hasn't apologized, and hasn't done anything to demonstrate that his opinions have changed. Personally, Eich's weird avoidance of the topic makes me question his fitness to lead a major non-profit. His handling of this in the media has been less than adroit. CEO is a public-facing role, and so far he doesn't seem to be very good at it.
    - bzbarsky 13y ago
      > will I face discrimination from Mozilla's new CEO? That's a legitimate question, absolutely. The openly gay people who have been working with him over the last several years at Mozilla seem to be saying they haven't faced any discrimination from him in the process. And Mitchell, who has worked with him very closely since 1997 or so, was very surprised when she found out two years ago about the 2008 donation [1]. Which implies that he had kept any thoughts he had on the matter out of his closest professional interactions for those 15 or so years. Make of all that what you will. [1] https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2014/03/26/building-a-global-diverse-inclusive-mozilla-project-addressing-controversy/ https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2014/03/26/building-a-global... next to last paragraph.
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
Bigotry is always toxic.
8_hours_ago 13y ago
In this case, yes. I would argue that any political action that has caused this much fallout can be classified as "toxic". Whether or not said political action actually deserves to be toxic is a separate topic.
rogerbinns 13y ago
"According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are 1,138 statutory provisions in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges."[1] He donated money to a cause to prevent those 1,138 benefits, rights and privileges being available to gay couples. He hasn't changed his mind, explained himself etc. He has issued a statement saying Mozilla employees will get benefits, rights and privileges within the company equally. But those same employees (not to mention Mozilla's customer base) also have lives outside of the company. It is very easy to see how that can be considered "toxic political action" as well as calling into doubt his suitably going forward. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of...

Has he defended his support of a blatantly anti-gay measure? You cannot support hate groups and expect the world to just brush it off. Edit - Found his response: https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

CamperBob2 13y ago

I'm guessing you're not one of the people being discriminated against by Proposition 8. Am I right?

snogglethorpe 13y ago
You are correct, although I disagree(d) strongly with Proposition 8....

llamataboot 13y ago

What about a relatively small donation to the KKK or a neo-Nazi party? The issue isn't the size of the donation but taking a public stance in support of bigotry.

jswinghammer 13y ago
Given that such a donation would change the matter entirely your point isn't relevant. There is a massive number of people in this country that support his position (note: I'm not one of them). Calling them all bigots is a cheap way out of having actual conversations.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
  A bigot is a person with a bigoted opinion.
mynameishere 13y ago
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politics/supreme-court-preview-obama/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/politics/supreme-court-preview... President Barack Obama once believed marriage only was for one man and one woman. Was Obama once a supporter of the KKK? Do you people seriously not realize that gay "marriage" has been concocted into a moral imperative only very recently by the media? And that just a few years ago, not only was opposing it not bigotry, but being in support of it was completely loony tunes?
- stormbrew 13y ago
  Yeah, it's all the media's fault! There aren't real people affected by these things, obviously. Just cartoon characters in our daily dose of Media Party Propaganda. Snark aside, this analogy will work when Brendan Eich changes his mind as Obama did. No one is saying he's forever doomed by his position in 2008, but if he still believes it people still have every right to disagree with him as vocally as they want.
- wpietri 13y ago
  Once everybody was in favor of slavery, too. That people now have it right doesn't mean that the previous position was less wrong. I agree that this change has been unusually swift compared with, say, the shift on interracial marriage from "loony tunes" to unremarkable. But I think that's mainly because there isn't a ton of gay/straight segregation, not like racial segregation. Now that being in the closet isn't nearly as common, it's hard for people to take an abstract anti-gay position without facing the fact that it will hurt somebody's family member. But the legitimate question for any Mozilla employee or partner is: will I face discrimination from Mozilla's new CEO? Sure, Eich has promised to behave at work, but he hasn't apologized, and hasn't done anything to demonstrate that his opinions have changed. Personally, Eich's weird avoidance of the topic makes me question his fitness to lead a major non-profit. His handling of this in the media has been less than adroit. CEO is a public-facing role, and so far he doesn't seem to be very good at it.
  - bzbarsky 13y ago
    > will I face discrimination from Mozilla's new CEO? That's a legitimate question, absolutely. The openly gay people who have been working with him over the last several years at Mozilla seem to be saying they haven't faced any discrimination from him in the process. And Mitchell, who has worked with him very closely since 1997 or so, was very surprised when she found out two years ago about the 2008 donation [1]. Which implies that he had kept any thoughts he had on the matter out of his closest professional interactions for those 15 or so years. Make of all that what you will. [1] https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2014/03/26/building-a-global-diverse-inclusive-mozilla-project-addressing-controversy/ https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2014/03/26/building-a-global... next to last paragraph.

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

Bigotry is always toxic.

8_hours_ago 13y ago

In this case, yes. I would argue that any political action that has caused this much fallout can be classified as "toxic". Whether or not said political action actually deserves to be toxic is a separate topic.

rogerbinns 13y ago

"According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are 1,138 statutory provisions in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges."[1] He donated money to a cause to prevent those 1,138 benefits, rights and privileges being available to gay couples. He hasn't changed his mind, explained himself etc. He has issued a statement saying Mozilla employees will get benefits, rights and privileges within the company equally. But those same employees (not to mention Mozilla's customer base) also have lives outside of the company. It is very easy to see how that can be considered "toxic political action" as well as calling into doubt his suitably going forward. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of...