4 ms·

How Much Does Obamacare Rip Off Young Adults? We Ran The Numbers.

14 points by ytNumbers 13y ago

josephby 13y ago
"How much does _pay as you go social program_ rip off _demographic not currently served by program_? We ran the numbers."
sharemywin 13y ago
Great you pointed out healthcare is hard to solve. How do you fix it? ignoring it is not a good solution.
- fleitz 13y ago
  I dunno, maybe ask, every other developed country in the world? Maybe after the US drops the "rah rah, we're the best fucking country in the world" bs and eats a slice of humble pie it will realize that providing healthcare to it's citizens isn't really a very difficult problem to solve.
  - thedufer 13y ago
    Yes, the US healthcare system is broken. But its not as easy as you make it out to be. Look at our drug costs - they're way higher than anywhere else. Where's that money going? Largely to medical research companies. The US is, to some degree, subsidizing medical research for the rest of the world. Now, there are a lot of places we could improve by looking to other countries. But even doing all of those things isn't going to make things as cheap here as they are everywhere else.
    - jessaustin 13y ago
      Drug costs are a great example of where the USA could easily improve, if the lobbyists allowed. Because they are predictable and unceasing, drug costs for chronic conditions should not be covered by an insurance regime. It's as silly as purchasing food or clothing with insurance. Of course, once actual consumers are buying, competition will drive costs down. That isn't to say I don't have sympathy for those who need extremely expensive drugs on an ongoing basis. That is a hardship, which could be ameliorated by government payments, e.g. Medicare, Medicaid, or something similar. But there should also be a middle category, of drugs that are expensive but which most patients can reasonably afford without government assistance. Drugs in that category will tend to see swift price drops as soon as the FDA allows generic competition.
    - mandelbulb 13y ago
      > The US is, to some degree, subsidizing medical research for the rest of the world. First, that is true to only a small degree, second, it is irrelevant to the companies' revenue. Some may miss income in some countries due to generics and lower copyright protections but even solving this issue wouldn't decrease prices in the US.
Fomite 13y ago
"Obamacare is asking young adults to effectively subsidize the healthcare costs of older Americans." - so is every other goddamned healthcare system in the world, besides "Devil take the hindmost". Low risk subsidizes high risk, but someday you will be high risk.
- misnome 13y ago
  Right, this seems so plainly obvious... It's not as though "young adults" don't age.
- wmf 13y ago
  Hopefully those older people are making more income. Should the fraction of your income you spend on insurance increase, decrease, or stay similar as you age?
- mhurron 13y ago
  You know, it almost sounds like this ACA thing is some sort of insurance.
  - glenra 13y ago
    No, it sounds like it's a welfare program. If it were insurance, it would charge proportional to the expected cost of serving the relevant demographic group. But due to the "community rating" provisions, charging actuarially appropriate rates is illegal, so instead we're charging rates that are pretty much guaranteed to make health care even more expensive than it was before.
    - jrs235 13y ago
      I've heard the car insurance analogies which don't work very well. Perhaps a life insurance analogy would work better... Now everyone can apply and get life insurance regardless of preexisting/current conditions. To make it affordable the young and healthy will pay more than the statistical probabilities that they will die tomorrow. The elder will pay less. How is this sustainable except through ever drastically increasing premiums?
smokey_the_bear 13y ago
I was (am?) a proponent of Obamacare, but I was really taken aback when I got our notification of what my young family's new premiums and plan would be under the ACA. Our premiums are going up 38% and our max-out-of-pocket is doubling. We are also now responsible for 20% of costs after the $3000 deductible instead of 0%.
jessaustin 13y ago
I'm not sure whether to believe TFA, because it conforms so exactly to my initial expectations when I first heard of Obamacare back in 2009. I'm not noted for any skill at predicting outcomes, so this makes me suspicious. If the government wants to transfer (even more) resources from young adult single people to older family-type people, it's going to have to pick a non-voluntary method. ISTM taxes are often used for this. I know the excuse why that didn't happen: that blatant inter-generational transfers wouldn't have passed the legislative process, while this Byzantine obfuscated rat's nest for which dozens of parties can plausibly be blamed did. Maybe that's a problem?

14 points by ytNumbers 13y ago

"How much does _pay as you go social program_ rip off _demographic not currently served by program_? We ran the numbers."

sharemywin 13y ago

Great you pointed out healthcare is hard to solve. How do you fix it? ignoring it is not a good solution.

fleitz 13y ago
I dunno, maybe ask, every other developed country in the world? Maybe after the US drops the "rah rah, we're the best fucking country in the world" bs and eats a slice of humble pie it will realize that providing healthcare to it's citizens isn't really a very difficult problem to solve.
- thedufer 13y ago
  Yes, the US healthcare system is broken. But its not as easy as you make it out to be. Look at our drug costs - they're way higher than anywhere else. Where's that money going? Largely to medical research companies. The US is, to some degree, subsidizing medical research for the rest of the world. Now, there are a lot of places we could improve by looking to other countries. But even doing all of those things isn't going to make things as cheap here as they are everywhere else.
  - jessaustin 13y ago
    Drug costs are a great example of where the USA could easily improve, if the lobbyists allowed. Because they are predictable and unceasing, drug costs for chronic conditions should not be covered by an insurance regime. It's as silly as purchasing food or clothing with insurance. Of course, once actual consumers are buying, competition will drive costs down. That isn't to say I don't have sympathy for those who need extremely expensive drugs on an ongoing basis. That is a hardship, which could be ameliorated by government payments, e.g. Medicare, Medicaid, or something similar. But there should also be a middle category, of drugs that are expensive but which most patients can reasonably afford without government assistance. Drugs in that category will tend to see swift price drops as soon as the FDA allows generic competition.
  - mandelbulb 13y ago
    > The US is, to some degree, subsidizing medical research for the rest of the world. First, that is true to only a small degree, second, it is irrelevant to the companies' revenue. Some may miss income in some countries due to generics and lower copyright protections but even solving this issue wouldn't decrease prices in the US.

Fomite 13y ago

"Obamacare is asking young adults to effectively subsidize the healthcare costs of older Americans." - so is every other goddamned healthcare system in the world, besides "Devil take the hindmost". Low risk subsidizes high risk, but someday you will be high risk.

misnome 13y ago
Right, this seems so plainly obvious... It's not as though "young adults" don't age.
wmf 13y ago
Hopefully those older people are making more income. Should the fraction of your income you spend on insurance increase, decrease, or stay similar as you age?
mhurron 13y ago
You know, it almost sounds like this ACA thing is some sort of insurance.
- glenra 13y ago
  No, it sounds like it's a welfare program. If it were insurance, it would charge proportional to the expected cost of serving the relevant demographic group. But due to the "community rating" provisions, charging actuarially appropriate rates is illegal, so instead we're charging rates that are pretty much guaranteed to make health care even more expensive than it was before.
  - jrs235 13y ago
    I've heard the car insurance analogies which don't work very well. Perhaps a life insurance analogy would work better... Now everyone can apply and get life insurance regardless of preexisting/current conditions. To make it affordable the young and healthy will pay more than the statistical probabilities that they will die tomorrow. The elder will pay less. How is this sustainable except through ever drastically increasing premiums?

smokey_the_bear 13y ago

I was (am?) a proponent of Obamacare, but I was really taken aback when I got our notification of what my young family's new premiums and plan would be under the ACA. Our premiums are going up 38% and our max-out-of-pocket is doubling. We are also now responsible for 20% of costs after the $3000 deductible instead of 0%.

jessaustin 13y ago

I'm not sure whether to believe TFA, because it conforms so exactly to my initial expectations when I first heard of Obamacare back in 2009. I'm not noted for any skill at predicting outcomes, so this makes me suspicious. If the government wants to transfer (even more) resources from young adult single people to older family-type people, it's going to have to pick a non-voluntary method. ISTM taxes are often used for this. I know the excuse why that didn't happen: that blatant inter-generational transfers wouldn't have passed the legislative process, while this Byzantine obfuscated rat's nest for which dozens of parties can plausibly be blamed did. Maybe that's a problem?