4 ms·

It's interesting how the article makes a great effort explaining why and how stereotypical "bingo" strawman pattern matching is counterproductive, and then goes

It's interesting how the article makes a great effort explaining why and how stereotypical "bingo" strawman pattern matching is counterproductive, and then goes on to categorize feminism as a "conceptual superweapon" using a bunch of shallow strawmen itself.

ehartsuyker 13y ago
I was thinking the same thing. I wish the author didn't single out any group for using this tactic because up until that point, it was a legitimate critique. After that, it felt a little like he was attacking a straw man himself.
anon4 13y ago
I'm upvoting you not because I agree with you, but because this is the most hilarious comment I've read on HN and I want more people to see it. :)
- boomlinde 13y ago
  Maybe you could also contribute to the discussion by explaining what is so hilarious about my comment. I'm sure you have a reasonable and relevant argument to make.
  - three14 13y ago
    Consider the possibility that he wasn't using shallow strawmen, and also consider that your comment might be an example of exactly what he's complaining about! (You don't actually have to agree, but you wouldn't have written your GP comment that way if you had really thought about it.)
    - boomlinde 13y ago
      > Consider the possibility that he wasn't using shallow strawmen Let's have a look at the article again, then: If you are like everyone else on the Internet, your immediate response is "Whoever is saying that is obviously a racisty racist who loves racism! I can't believe he literally used the 'I'm not racist, but...' line in those exact words! The old INRB! I've got to get home as fast as I can to write about this on my blog and tell everyone I really met one of those people!" If a man thinks parts of the reason why some men are jerks toward women is because women actually are more likely to date jerks than people who are respectful, she can gleefully declare "You're a Nice Guy (TM) and therefore Worse Than Hitler (TM)!" and point and laugh. If those are indeed both truly representative and real anecdotes, feel free to correct me, but otherwise I don't see how they are more than just shallow strawmen. > also consider that your comment might be an example of exactly what he's complaining about! I did consider that, but I personally think that that it isn't, so maybe you could give me a hint as to how my comment embodies any of the tendencies described in the article. Consider that asking me to consider these things could be a way for you to suggest that they are true without having to resort to actual reasoning.
      - frooxie 13y ago
        > otherwise I don't see how they are more than just shallow strawmen. Both examples seem really common to me, although slightly exaggerated for comic effect. It's extremely easy to find people who dismiss everything said after "INR,B" as racist — for instance, on Urban Dictionary whatever is said after it is DEFINED as racist: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%27m%20not%20racist%2C%20but%20.%20.%20 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%27m%20not%2.... (I'll happily agree that very many things said after "INR,B" ARE racist, but it also seems obvious to me that if you have an actual non-racist point to make, lots of people are going to dismiss it if you start with "INR,B".)
nshepperd 13y ago
It could be a conceptual superweapon at the same time as being useful and important!
- boomlinde 13y ago
  I won't say that it can or can't be, but I think that the author of the article makes his stance on it pretty clear up until the point where his own arguments start fulfilling the definition.
Symmetry 13y ago
I think the author is going too far in his last part and most of the people who describe themselves as feminist who I've met aren't anything like the stereotype he gives. But it's also true that I have met people who call themselves feminists who do behave in the way he describes. So it might be stereotyping, but it's not a straw man.
- boomlinde 13y ago
  I guess that calling it a strawman is kind of a stretch to begin with. My point is that his reasoning somewhat embodies the same phenomenon that he is criticizing.

ehartsuyker 13y ago

I was thinking the same thing. I wish the author didn't single out any group for using this tactic because up until that point, it was a legitimate critique. After that, it felt a little like he was attacking a straw man himself.

anon4 13y ago

I'm upvoting you not because I agree with you, but because this is the most hilarious comment I've read on HN and I want more people to see it. :)

boomlinde 13y ago
Maybe you could also contribute to the discussion by explaining what is so hilarious about my comment. I'm sure you have a reasonable and relevant argument to make.
- three14 13y ago
  Consider the possibility that he wasn't using shallow strawmen, and also consider that your comment might be an example of exactly what he's complaining about! (You don't actually have to agree, but you wouldn't have written your GP comment that way if you had really thought about it.)
  - boomlinde 13y ago
    > Consider the possibility that he wasn't using shallow strawmen Let's have a look at the article again, then: If you are like everyone else on the Internet, your immediate response is "Whoever is saying that is obviously a racisty racist who loves racism! I can't believe he literally used the 'I'm not racist, but...' line in those exact words! The old INRB! I've got to get home as fast as I can to write about this on my blog and tell everyone I really met one of those people!" If a man thinks parts of the reason why some men are jerks toward women is because women actually are more likely to date jerks than people who are respectful, she can gleefully declare "You're a Nice Guy (TM) and therefore Worse Than Hitler (TM)!" and point and laugh. If those are indeed both truly representative and real anecdotes, feel free to correct me, but otherwise I don't see how they are more than just shallow strawmen. > also consider that your comment might be an example of exactly what he's complaining about! I did consider that, but I personally think that that it isn't, so maybe you could give me a hint as to how my comment embodies any of the tendencies described in the article. Consider that asking me to consider these things could be a way for you to suggest that they are true without having to resort to actual reasoning.
    - frooxie 13y ago
      > otherwise I don't see how they are more than just shallow strawmen. Both examples seem really common to me, although slightly exaggerated for comic effect. It's extremely easy to find people who dismiss everything said after "INR,B" as racist — for instance, on Urban Dictionary whatever is said after it is DEFINED as racist: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%27m%20not%20racist%2C%20but%20.%20.%20 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=i%27m%20not%2.... (I'll happily agree that very many things said after "INR,B" ARE racist, but it also seems obvious to me that if you have an actual non-racist point to make, lots of people are going to dismiss it if you start with "INR,B".)

nshepperd 13y ago

It could be a conceptual superweapon at the same time as being useful and important!

boomlinde 13y ago
I won't say that it can or can't be, but I think that the author of the article makes his stance on it pretty clear up until the point where his own arguments start fulfilling the definition.

Symmetry 13y ago

I think the author is going too far in his last part and most of the people who describe themselves as feminist who I've met aren't anything like the stereotype he gives. But it's also true that I have met people who call themselves feminists who do behave in the way he describes. So it might be stereotyping, but it's not a straw man.

boomlinde 13y ago
I guess that calling it a strawman is kind of a stretch to begin with. My point is that his reasoning somewhat embodies the same phenomenon that he is criticizing.