6 ms·

AND ANOTHER THING!!! Screw you Kurzweil. We're not going to "upload" our consciousnesses to the cloud/singularity. We're going to "copy" them. Once the Brain Pr

AND ANOTHER THING!!! Screw you Kurzweil. We're not going to "upload" our consciousnesses to the cloud/singularity. We're going to "copy" them. Once the Brain Project(1) is complete and MRIs get enough resolution and computing becomes cheap enough, we'll make neuron-per-neuron simulations of our brains. Those will be exact copies of us, but they won't be us. Our copies will live forever in the singularity, but us poor biological saps will continue to die just like we did before. I plan on hating my copy out of incredible envy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Brain_Project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Brain_Project

edraferi 13y ago
I think you would enjoy this comic, which explores the consciousness copy problem: http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1
rpm4321 13y ago
I think Ray uses "upload" as shorthand for something more complex. Say over the course of 10 years you replaced 1 of the millions of cortical columns in your neocortex every minute or so with a functionally equivalent computer chip. You would never stop being you. Your consciousness would never be interrupted. You would simply become something greater. This is already happening in a very limited way with the various brain implants used to treat Parkinson's, hearing impairment, blindness, strokes, head injuries, etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_implant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_implant
- tcbawo 13y ago
  Or you would slowly, imperceptibly become 'not' you.
  - henryaj 13y ago
    This has the same issues of defining the 'self' that we already do -- namely that none of the cells in your body are the same as the cells that made you up ten years ago. Maybe we're all imperceptibly becoming someone else all the time...
    - tcbawo 13y ago
      I picture 'self' as a surfer riding a wave. If you could suddenly and instantaneously replace every molecule in the wave without getting the velocity exactly right, the experience changes. History is altered, a fork of you.
  - drjesusphd 13y ago
    I slowly, imperceptibly become "not me" every day. I change and become a different person; so do you.
- 3rd3 13y ago
  Why does it have to be a slow process? That sounds like a cheat workaround for the difficulties of defining "self" and "consciousness".
- aodin 13y ago
  Plutarch described this paradox of gradual replacement in the ship of Theseus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
Holbein 13y ago
"a braver film would have addressed this somehow. Samantha is a slave." I don't think Samantha is a slave. Note that Theodore is not shown paying for Samantha. He could as well have partaken in a free beta program. She also asks for time for herself, does not sound slaveish to me. There were many places where the story could have gone, but Jonze decided not to go there: privacy, hacking and trust, malfunctions, AI doing stuff for you that you did not explicitly asked for and Theodore suing the company for that. Jonze simply decided to accept Samantha as a real person in a love story, and go from there. I don't agree with you that "Her" is not a brave film just because it did not raise issues that you had in mind.
- samstave 13y ago
  Well, he never asked her to compile the book and find a publisher.... It was explicitly not asked for, and we have a words for that; surprise, nice gesture, gift..
avz 13y ago
> ...but us poor biological saps will continue to die just like we did before. I plan on hating my copy out of incredible envy. By the same reasoning we should stop all work on improving the world out of envy of the people who come after us. Those people who will enjoy longer and healthier lives without cancer, poverty, crime and environmental pollution thanks to the progress we're making today.
Houshalter 13y ago
A copy of you is you[1]. And likely the original will be destroyed in the process. [1]http://lesswrong.com/lw/pm/identity_isnt_in_specific_atoms/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/pm/identity_isnt_in_specific_atoms/

edraferi 13y ago

I think you would enjoy this comic, which explores the consciousness copy problem: http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1 http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1

rpm4321 13y ago

I think Ray uses "upload" as shorthand for something more complex. Say over the course of 10 years you replaced 1 of the millions of cortical columns in your neocortex every minute or so with a functionally equivalent computer chip. You would never stop being you. Your consciousness would never be interrupted. You would simply become something greater. This is already happening in a very limited way with the various brain implants used to treat Parkinson's, hearing impairment, blindness, strokes, head injuries, etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_implant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_implant

tcbawo 13y ago
Or you would slowly, imperceptibly become 'not' you.
- henryaj 13y ago
  This has the same issues of defining the 'self' that we already do -- namely that none of the cells in your body are the same as the cells that made you up ten years ago. Maybe we're all imperceptibly becoming someone else all the time...
  - tcbawo 13y ago
    I picture 'self' as a surfer riding a wave. If you could suddenly and instantaneously replace every molecule in the wave without getting the velocity exactly right, the experience changes. History is altered, a fork of you.
- drjesusphd 13y ago
  I slowly, imperceptibly become "not me" every day. I change and become a different person; so do you.
3rd3 13y ago
Why does it have to be a slow process? That sounds like a cheat workaround for the difficulties of defining "self" and "consciousness".
aodin 13y ago
Plutarch described this paradox of gradual replacement in the ship of Theseus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Holbein 13y ago

"a braver film would have addressed this somehow. Samantha is a slave." I don't think Samantha is a slave. Note that Theodore is not shown paying for Samantha. He could as well have partaken in a free beta program. She also asks for time for herself, does not sound slaveish to me. There were many places where the story could have gone, but Jonze decided not to go there: privacy, hacking and trust, malfunctions, AI doing stuff for you that you did not explicitly asked for and Theodore suing the company for that. Jonze simply decided to accept Samantha as a real person in a love story, and go from there. I don't agree with you that "Her" is not a brave film just because it did not raise issues that you had in mind.

samstave 13y ago
Well, he never asked her to compile the book and find a publisher.... It was explicitly not asked for, and we have a words for that; surprise, nice gesture, gift..

avz 13y ago

> ...but us poor biological saps will continue to die just like we did before. I plan on hating my copy out of incredible envy. By the same reasoning we should stop all work on improving the world out of envy of the people who come after us. Those people who will enjoy longer and healthier lives without cancer, poverty, crime and environmental pollution thanks to the progress we're making today.

Houshalter 13y ago

A copy of you is you[1]. And likely the original will be destroyed in the process. [1]http://lesswrong.com/lw/pm/identity_isnt_in_specific_atoms/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/pm/identity_isnt_in_specific_atoms/