4 ms·

A very famous Harvard Nobel prize winning scientist had a phd student commit suicide while in his lab: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/29/magazine/lethal-chemis

by Fede_V 13y ago

A very famous Harvard Nobel prize winning scientist had a phd student commit suicide while in his lab: http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/29/magazine/lethal-chemistry-at-harvard.html http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/29/magazine/lethal-chemistry-... Still there, still incredibly famous, still untouched. Oh, and speaking specifically of chemistry, who can forget this brilliant gem? http://www.chemistry-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/a40kI.png http://www.chemistry-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/a40... That's real by the way.

bigd 13y ago
here's one right out of my mailbox (edit added subject): Subject: CORE HOURS -- effective NOW Group, It seems my efforts to communicate to you the importance of putting in the time and focusing on * your * research -- again, your, not mine -- are being ignored. I just saw a group of three graduate students going merrily to gym at 4 PM. At the same time, the lab is empty -- most of the day, not to mention evenings. Here is what is going to happen, effective immediately: The CORE HOURS for EVERYONE in the lab are from 10 AM to 6 PM. If you prefer to come early I can -- on an individual basis -- allow 9 AM -- 5 PM. During core hours, I want to see EVERYONE WORKING, if you are not at your desk, you must leave a note where you can be found. Saturday is the SAME core hours as the rest of the week. The minumum number of WORK hours I expect -- not schmoozing around, going to gym etc -- is 60 per week, This means that in addition to 6 * 8 core hours, I expect to see you in the lab for at least additional 12 hrs a week. Vacation in the group is TWO weeks a year -- in line with the Grad School policy. In special circumstances, I might consider an extra week. There are NO exceptions to the policy outlined above. If you have any questions s to the "legality" of these requirements, I suggest you talk to ____ or to the Graduate School officials. I am sorry it had to come to that but it appears other means of persuation simply fail.
- badman_ting 13y ago
  Wow, nice.
- jkimmel 13y ago
  I'm currently considering graduate school, and have unfortunately read too many stories quite like this. Do you have an idea of how prevalent this kind of micromanagement is for peers in your cohort? Do you just have a particularly unreasonable PI?
  - bigd 13y ago
    Our PI is renewed for being one of the worst in the planet, but he's also a really famous one. (average is 1 science + 1 nature / year) Is hard to find someone this bad, but the worst part was not the micromanagement. That is pretty common. It was the constant lack of appreciation, being blackmailed over the visas, his holding papers hostage for years until your loyalty was proven. A colleague has been there for 4 years of post-doc, and has 0 papers published, 6 ready to go on his desk. And the first one is from 3 years ago. I can go on all day over this. I resigned yesterday at the second post-doc.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      His name? It would be fair enough to warn people about the guy.
      - bigd 13y ago
        I hope you will understand if I don't tell his name. My wife is still in the lab. And she's already facing enough shit, + the retaliations because I've betrayed the PI by leaving. We don't need any legal crap added to the mix. However, I can tell you that there are many investigations ongoing, ranging from sexual to misconduct to stealing research money, and that he's in hiring freeze since few months. There's a chance he will be fired. The university seems, for once, on our side. Then, it will be my pleasure to tell the world all the details.
        angersock 13y ago
        Sunlight is the best antiseptic. Good luck to you and your wife!
- arh68 13y ago
  > I am sorry I've never liked when people lie like that. > your research -- again, your, not mine I presume his/her name appears nowhere on the research papers, then?
- bigd 13y ago
  and the follow up, 5 minutes later: Subject: ONE OTHER THING RE: CORE HOURS -- effective NOW If anyone has a problem follwoing the rules outlined below, I would certainly understand why you might want to leave the group and find a better advisor.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  >If you have any questions s to the "legality" of these requirements, I suggest you talk to ____ or to the Graduate School officials. It always appalls me precisely that academics and professionals are exempted from labor laws, and thus many of the most highly educated, highly trained, dedicated people on Earth, at the forefront of advancing the human species... get subjected to this bullshit. >I just saw a group of three graduate students going merrily to gym at 4 PM. Because obviously health and physical fitness are a net drain on productivity /sarcasm.
chetanahuja 13y ago
Ex-chemistry grad student here (ABD... then wisely moved to computer science). My wife who did finish her PhD and has gone through the Post-doc grind for a few years, can confirm all of the above.

by Fede_V 13y ago

bigd 13y ago

here's one right out of my mailbox (edit added subject): Subject: CORE HOURS -- effective NOW Group, It seems my efforts to communicate to you the importance of putting in the time and focusing on * your * research -- again, your, not mine -- are being ignored. I just saw a group of three graduate students going merrily to gym at 4 PM. At the same time, the lab is empty -- most of the day, not to mention evenings. Here is what is going to happen, effective immediately: The CORE HOURS for EVERYONE in the lab are from 10 AM to 6 PM. If you prefer to come early I can -- on an individual basis -- allow 9 AM -- 5 PM. During core hours, I want to see EVERYONE WORKING, if you are not at your desk, you must leave a note where you can be found. Saturday is the SAME core hours as the rest of the week. The minumum number of WORK hours I expect -- not schmoozing around, going to gym etc -- is 60 per week, This means that in addition to 6 * 8 core hours, I expect to see you in the lab for at least additional 12 hrs a week. Vacation in the group is TWO weeks a year -- in line with the Grad School policy. In special circumstances, I might consider an extra week. There are NO exceptions to the policy outlined above. If you have any questions s to the "legality" of these requirements, I suggest you talk to ____ or to the Graduate School officials. I am sorry it had to come to that but it appears other means of persuation simply fail.

badman_ting 13y ago
Wow, nice.
jkimmel 13y ago
I'm currently considering graduate school, and have unfortunately read too many stories quite like this. Do you have an idea of how prevalent this kind of micromanagement is for peers in your cohort? Do you just have a particularly unreasonable PI?
- bigd 13y ago
  Our PI is renewed for being one of the worst in the planet, but he's also a really famous one. (average is 1 science + 1 nature / year) Is hard to find someone this bad, but the worst part was not the micromanagement. That is pretty common. It was the constant lack of appreciation, being blackmailed over the visas, his holding papers hostage for years until your loyalty was proven. A colleague has been there for 4 years of post-doc, and has 0 papers published, 6 ready to go on his desk. And the first one is from 3 years ago. I can go on all day over this. I resigned yesterday at the second post-doc.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    His name? It would be fair enough to warn people about the guy.
    - bigd 13y ago
      I hope you will understand if I don't tell his name. My wife is still in the lab. And she's already facing enough shit, + the retaliations because I've betrayed the PI by leaving. We don't need any legal crap added to the mix. However, I can tell you that there are many investigations ongoing, ranging from sexual to misconduct to stealing research money, and that he's in hiring freeze since few months. There's a chance he will be fired. The university seems, for once, on our side. Then, it will be my pleasure to tell the world all the details.
      - angersock 13y ago
        Sunlight is the best antiseptic. Good luck to you and your wife!
arh68 13y ago
> I am sorry I've never liked when people lie like that. > your research -- again, your, not mine I presume his/her name appears nowhere on the research papers, then?
bigd 13y ago
and the follow up, 5 minutes later: Subject: ONE OTHER THING RE: CORE HOURS -- effective NOW If anyone has a problem follwoing the rules outlined below, I would certainly understand why you might want to leave the group and find a better advisor.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
>If you have any questions s to the "legality" of these requirements, I suggest you talk to ____ or to the Graduate School officials. It always appalls me precisely that academics and professionals are exempted from labor laws, and thus many of the most highly educated, highly trained, dedicated people on Earth, at the forefront of advancing the human species... get subjected to this bullshit. >I just saw a group of three graduate students going merrily to gym at 4 PM. Because obviously health and physical fitness are a net drain on productivity /sarcasm.

chetanahuja 13y ago

Ex-chemistry grad student here (ABD... then wisely moved to computer science). My wife who did finish her PhD and has gone through the Post-doc grind for a few years, can confirm all of the above.