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Margaret Thatcher studied chemistry at Oxford and became a proper scientist working for a proper company before starting her political career. This was during a

Margaret Thatcher studied chemistry at Oxford and became a proper scientist working for a proper company before starting her political career. This was during a time when equal opportunities for women was a controversial idea rather than a right. One of Thatcher's more notorious beliefs was that there is no such thing as society and everyone had to be out for themselves. After reading this article I can see that she might have got this belief from academia where the culture is competition rather than collaboration.

hardlianotion 13y ago
Of course, the notoriety of the 'belief' is due to its deliberate and extensive misquoting.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
iMark 13y ago
"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."
- humanrebar 13y ago
  In other words, entitlements come from somebody else (or many somebodies), not a magical cornucopia called "society". That quote is an attempt to humanize the source of government resources.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    >There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation. In other words, people who don't work don't eat, except through the charity of people who have decided that they've earned enough to take care of themselves and their families.
    - humanrebar 13y ago
      More like, if you didn't pay for it, somebody else did. That is, you can't honestly say you're entitled to anything from "society" because "society" doesn't own anything. Only living, breathing people own things. When someone feels entitled to something (note the passive voice), they are saying that someone else owes them something. Maybe that's fair, but personifying the argument makes it much more honest, which I believe is the point of the quote.
      - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
        Yeah, but Thatcher's capitalist-conservatism is open to the same Marxist critique as the American version: these whole "private property" and "owned capital" things are themselves social constructions in the first place, so claiming that you don't owe other people basic human welfare while society owes you a property system that benefits you at everyone else's expense is itself an unfair, uneven entitlement being made by a parasitical minority on the decent, hardworking majority.
collyw 13y ago
Was it always the case that there was so much competition in Science? I graduated in 1996, and in those days it was only a few of the better people that went on to do PhD's, and there were not so many available. These days it seems relatively easy to get on to a PHD program (after doing a Masters) and the people I meet doing them do not appear to be the best and brightest.

hardlianotion 13y ago

Of course, the notoriety of the 'belief' is due to its deliberate and extensive misquoting.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

iMark 13y ago

"And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

humanrebar 13y ago
In other words, entitlements come from somebody else (or many somebodies), not a magical cornucopia called "society". That quote is an attempt to humanize the source of government resources.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  >There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation. In other words, people who don't work don't eat, except through the charity of people who have decided that they've earned enough to take care of themselves and their families.
  - humanrebar 13y ago
    More like, if you didn't pay for it, somebody else did. That is, you can't honestly say you're entitled to anything from "society" because "society" doesn't own anything. Only living, breathing people own things. When someone feels entitled to something (note the passive voice), they are saying that someone else owes them something. Maybe that's fair, but personifying the argument makes it much more honest, which I believe is the point of the quote.
    - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
      Yeah, but Thatcher's capitalist-conservatism is open to the same Marxist critique as the American version: these whole "private property" and "owned capital" things are themselves social constructions in the first place, so claiming that you don't owe other people basic human welfare while society owes you a property system that benefits you at everyone else's expense is itself an unfair, uneven entitlement being made by a parasitical minority on the decent, hardworking majority.

collyw 13y ago

Was it always the case that there was so much competition in Science? I graduated in 1996, and in those days it was only a few of the better people that went on to do PhD's, and there were not so many available. These days it seems relatively easy to get on to a PHD program (after doing a Masters) and the people I meet doing them do not appear to be the best and brightest.