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That's something I don't understand, how can homeopathic remedies even be sold? The manufacturer can't prove the health benefits they claim and the product don'

by ama729 13y ago

That's something I don't understand, how can homeopathic remedies even be sold? The manufacturer can't prove the health benefits they claim and the product don't contain the element on the bottle. It's just complete nonsense.

Ygg2 13y ago
Actually no, homeopathic contains minute traces of cause of disease... Basically if you are hit by a blue car, they need a homeopathic traces of blue color to 'cure' you.
- fetbaffe 13y ago
  Exactly. http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0 http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0
- seren 13y ago
  Only in some case, a "nosode", i.e a trace of the disease, is used. But it is not systematic. For example, oscillococcinum [0] which is sold as a flu remedy, is famous for containing some cells from a duck liver. If I remember correctly a single duck is raised every year, and due to the dilution, is enough to produce the millions of dose. I am not sure what makes more sense, the nosode or the duck liver... [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum
  - codfrantic 13y ago
    A Dutch TV programme ('de Keuringsdienst van Waarden') did a show on oscillococcinum, they went to the factory and actually got a tour. When they started asking about the duck they were quickly taken to lunch (also no Duck). They went to duck farms near the factory but none of them had ever provided the factory with duck liver/heart... Episode (in Dutch / French) http://keuringsdienstvanwaarde.kro.nl/seizoenen/2011/afleveringen/27-10-2011 http://keuringsdienstvanwaarde.kro.nl/seizoenen/2011/aflever...
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Not really. Most homeopathic placebos are diluted to the point that you'd need to take anywhere from billions of doses up to get even a single molecule of the 'ingredient'. They are literally just water. Not ot mention that in most cases, the 'cause' is based on a speculative or outright fictional 'link'. For example, one of the most well known placebos is Oscillococcinum, which claims duck liver/heart 'causes' flu. It is also diluted to the point that, to quote, "As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    > They are literally just water. Usually they are sold as granules, containing some form of sugar... to capture the magical water :) So technically it's sugar+water that you ingest.
    - agumonkey 13y ago
      I took some homeopathic 'marbles' as a kid. Probably the best placebo ever designed. The only pill I'd never forget to take. While everything else is sour and alien in taste, this instead, is a doctor approved crunchy candy. Icing on the cake, the dispenser http://goo.gl/xsT3IM http://goo.gl/xsT3IM would be vetted by Steve Jobs, cute squary bottle, press the cap to fill it with a dose, open, ingest, close. Genius ?
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    I know, I just wanted to state they need to contain 'traces' of what caused the disease, not what cures it. That's why it's been revoked. Because it might work.
    - blueskin_ 13y ago
      Ducks cause flu?
  - kitwalker12 13y ago
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > Actually no, homeopathic contains minute traces of cause of disease... Above certain dilutions it goes beyond the Avogadro figure and there should be no molecules/proteins left of the original disease agent.
lotu 13y ago
They are sold as a supplement and they fall fine into that catagory.
jejones3141 13y ago
As lotu says, they're sold as supplements. Of course, homeopathic "remedies" are uniquely adapted to our litigious society--since they can have no effects, they can have no side effects, and thus you'll never see ads from lawyers looking to sue over side effects of homeopathy.
- aestra 13y ago
  >since they can have no effects, they can have no side effects Completely and totally incorrect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo In medicine, a nocebo (Latin for "I shall harm") is a harmless substance that creates harmful effects in a patient who takes it. Basically, you think "I'm taking medication, that could cause side effects," that thinking it and of itself can causes side effects!! It's like a reverse placebo. Also see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hO4_UEe-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hO4_UEe-4 (watch this short video, it give a great rundown on the nocebo effect, including examples) and people are thinking they are getting specific side effects....at least they are searching about them. http://i.imgur.com/lskvrtI.png http://i.imgur.com/lskvrtI.png
- MicroBerto 13y ago
  Actually, they're not sold as supplements all the time either. They're in some sort of weird gray area that is in between medicine and supplements: "The legal status of homeopathic remedies in the United States is unique. In 1938, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act was sponsored by Senator Royal Copeland who also happened to be a homeopathic physician. The senator wrote wording into his bill that recognized all products listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States as drugs and made them subject to regulation by the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The legislation passed, and as a result, homeopathic products are legally sold in food stores, pharmacies, and elsewhere as a unique category of drug. Despite such widespread use, the FDA regulates homeopathic preparations much less stringently than conventional drugs. Homeopathic products are not required to prove effectiveness or safety. Some regulations do apply. For example, homeopathic products can only be sold without a prescription if they are specifically for self-limiting conditions such as the common cold. Products marketed for severe conditions such as cancer are prescription-only." Source: http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1154-HOMEOPATHY.aspx?activeIngredientId=1154&activeIngredientName=HOMEOPATHY http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-115... That gray area has done a lot of damage to a lot of people.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- Ellipsis753 13y ago
  I'm sure it causes a lot of bad things to happen to people too. >"Marshall says that cases in which trusting vulnerable consumers have believed the claims of homeopaths and "forgone real medicine" in place of "these overpriced sugar pills" are "too numerable to count" and "often with unnecessary and tragic consequences." I knew someone who took homeopathic remedies instead of going to a doctor and she nearly died (saved by actual doctors). She still believes in homeopathic remedies....
  - fetbaffe 13y ago
    One who actually died of this BS was Steve Jobs.
    - serf 13y ago
      If you are to blame homeopathy for the death of Steve Jobs, might I remind you that he was the person who chose to pursue such quackery? Personally if you were to ask me about his death, i'd blame the cancer for killing him, not the 'science' he investigated in an effort to fix the problem.
      - fetbaffe 13y ago
        Of course it was the cancer that killed him, however by using homeopathy as a cure it certainly fasten the process by not actually curing him. But I don't hate cancer, it's a natural thing, but I do hate homeopathy because it's 100% man made quackery. If one of my relatives died sooner because they had been let to believe to use this nonsense I definite blame the salesman of scamming my relative of money, trust and a longer life. It is the same as the Christian church in the middle ages selling salvation for money to dying people. Despicable.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        Jobs had a relatively benign cancer that has something like a 90% survival rate. Jobs's case was not unusually deadly, and there is every reason to think he would have been cured if he had received proper treatment reasonably soon after being diagnosed. It goes beyond simply wishing he hadn't died, too. He managed to finagle a healthy liver transplant in the process, which might have gone to someone with a better chance of surviving with it longer.
lnanek2 13y ago
It's nonsense, but people pay $100 more for differently labeled bottled water too, so I guess this takes advantage of similar non-sensical behaviors.
- fishy929 13y ago
  Agreed. I wouldn't say either should be illegal though, as suggested by ama729.
bbanyc 13y ago
The primary sponsor of the Federal Food, Drug, & Cosmetic Act was a homeopathic physician. He put an exemption in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_S._Copeland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_S._Copeland

by ama729 13y ago

Ygg2 13y ago

Actually no, homeopathic contains minute traces of cause of disease... Basically if you are hit by a blue car, they need a homeopathic traces of blue color to 'cure' you.

fetbaffe 13y ago
Exactly. http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0 http://youtu.be/HMGIbOGu8q0
seren 13y ago
Only in some case, a "nosode", i.e a trace of the disease, is used. But it is not systematic. For example, oscillococcinum [0] which is sold as a flu remedy, is famous for containing some cells from a duck liver. If I remember correctly a single duck is raised every year, and due to the dilution, is enough to produce the millions of dose. I am not sure what makes more sense, the nosode or the duck liver... [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum
- codfrantic 13y ago
  A Dutch TV programme ('de Keuringsdienst van Waarden') did a show on oscillococcinum, they went to the factory and actually got a tour. When they started asking about the duck they were quickly taken to lunch (also no Duck). They went to duck farms near the factory but none of them had ever provided the factory with duck liver/heart... Episode (in Dutch / French) http://keuringsdienstvanwaarde.kro.nl/seizoenen/2011/afleveringen/27-10-2011 http://keuringsdienstvanwaarde.kro.nl/seizoenen/2011/aflever...
blueskin_ 13y ago
Not really. Most homeopathic placebos are diluted to the point that you'd need to take anywhere from billions of doses up to get even a single molecule of the 'ingredient'. They are literally just water. Not ot mention that in most cases, the 'cause' is based on a speculative or outright fictional 'link'. For example, one of the most well known placebos is Oscillococcinum, which claims duck liver/heart 'causes' flu. It is also diluted to the point that, to quote, "As there are only about 10^80 atoms in the entire observable universe, a dilution of one molecule in the observable universe would be about 40C. Oscillococcinum would thus require 10^320 more universes to simply have one molecule in the final substance."
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > They are literally just water. Usually they are sold as granules, containing some form of sugar... to capture the magical water :) So technically it's sugar+water that you ingest.
  - agumonkey 13y ago
    I took some homeopathic 'marbles' as a kid. Probably the best placebo ever designed. The only pill I'd never forget to take. While everything else is sour and alien in taste, this instead, is a doctor approved crunchy candy. Icing on the cake, the dispenser http://goo.gl/xsT3IM http://goo.gl/xsT3IM would be vetted by Steve Jobs, cute squary bottle, press the cap to fill it with a dose, open, ingest, close. Genius ?
- Ygg2 13y ago
  I know, I just wanted to state they need to contain 'traces' of what caused the disease, not what cures it. That's why it's been revoked. Because it might work.
  - blueskin_ 13y ago
    Ducks cause flu?
- kitwalker12 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ekianjo 13y ago
> Actually no, homeopathic contains minute traces of cause of disease... Above certain dilutions it goes beyond the Avogadro figure and there should be no molecules/proteins left of the original disease agent.

lotu 13y ago

They are sold as a supplement and they fall fine into that catagory.

jejones3141 13y ago

As lotu says, they're sold as supplements. Of course, homeopathic "remedies" are uniquely adapted to our litigious society--since they can have no effects, they can have no side effects, and thus you'll never see ads from lawyers looking to sue over side effects of homeopathy.

aestra 13y ago
>since they can have no effects, they can have no side effects Completely and totally incorrect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo In medicine, a nocebo (Latin for "I shall harm") is a harmless substance that creates harmful effects in a patient who takes it. Basically, you think "I'm taking medication, that could cause side effects," that thinking it and of itself can causes side effects!! It's like a reverse placebo. Also see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hO4_UEe-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hO4_UEe-4 (watch this short video, it give a great rundown on the nocebo effect, including examples) and people are thinking they are getting specific side effects....at least they are searching about them. http://i.imgur.com/lskvrtI.png http://i.imgur.com/lskvrtI.png
MicroBerto 13y ago
Actually, they're not sold as supplements all the time either. They're in some sort of weird gray area that is in between medicine and supplements: "The legal status of homeopathic remedies in the United States is unique. In 1938, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act was sponsored by Senator Royal Copeland who also happened to be a homeopathic physician. The senator wrote wording into his bill that recognized all products listed in the Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States as drugs and made them subject to regulation by the federal Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The legislation passed, and as a result, homeopathic products are legally sold in food stores, pharmacies, and elsewhere as a unique category of drug. Despite such widespread use, the FDA regulates homeopathic preparations much less stringently than conventional drugs. Homeopathic products are not required to prove effectiveness or safety. Some regulations do apply. For example, homeopathic products can only be sold without a prescription if they are specifically for self-limiting conditions such as the common cold. Products marketed for severe conditions such as cancer are prescription-only." Source: http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1154-HOMEOPATHY.aspx?activeIngredientId=1154&activeIngredientName=HOMEOPATHY http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-115... That gray area has done a lot of damage to a lot of people.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Ellipsis753 13y ago
I'm sure it causes a lot of bad things to happen to people too. >"Marshall says that cases in which trusting vulnerable consumers have believed the claims of homeopaths and "forgone real medicine" in place of "these overpriced sugar pills" are "too numerable to count" and "often with unnecessary and tragic consequences." I knew someone who took homeopathic remedies instead of going to a doctor and she nearly died (saved by actual doctors). She still believes in homeopathic remedies....
- fetbaffe 13y ago
  One who actually died of this BS was Steve Jobs.
  - serf 13y ago
    If you are to blame homeopathy for the death of Steve Jobs, might I remind you that he was the person who chose to pursue such quackery? Personally if you were to ask me about his death, i'd blame the cancer for killing him, not the 'science' he investigated in an effort to fix the problem.
    - fetbaffe 13y ago
      Of course it was the cancer that killed him, however by using homeopathy as a cure it certainly fasten the process by not actually curing him. But I don't hate cancer, it's a natural thing, but I do hate homeopathy because it's 100% man made quackery. If one of my relatives died sooner because they had been let to believe to use this nonsense I definite blame the salesman of scamming my relative of money, trust and a longer life. It is the same as the Christian church in the middle ages selling salvation for money to dying people. Despicable.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      Jobs had a relatively benign cancer that has something like a 90% survival rate. Jobs's case was not unusually deadly, and there is every reason to think he would have been cured if he had received proper treatment reasonably soon after being diagnosed. It goes beyond simply wishing he hadn't died, too. He managed to finagle a healthy liver transplant in the process, which might have gone to someone with a better chance of surviving with it longer.

lnanek2 13y ago

It's nonsense, but people pay $100 more for differently labeled bottled water too, so I guess this takes advantage of similar non-sensical behaviors.

fishy929 13y ago
Agreed. I wouldn't say either should be illegal though, as suggested by ama729.

bbanyc 13y ago

The primary sponsor of the Federal Food, Drug, & Cosmetic Act was a homeopathic physician. He put an exemption in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_S._Copeland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_S._Copeland