4 ms·

> the universality of red as the color of stop sign http://i.imgur.com/6UTTUjW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6UTTUjW.jpg http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign htt

by bch 13y ago

> the universality of red as the color of stop sign http://i.imgur.com/6UTTUjW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6UTTUjW.jpg http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign

thaumasiotes 13y ago
The wikipedia link is strong support for the idea that stop signs are universally red. Every pictured sign, from Argentina to Zimbabwe, is at the very least framed in red, and most are considerably redder than that. The text notes "The white legend/red field appearance is usually the same [from country to country]". The imgur link shows an unexplained green sign. Any thoughts as to why it's green?
- bch 13y ago
  Not clear why that instance is green. I think I've seen arrive photos of green stop signs too. The point of my post wasn't too be flippant though: the GP was talking about stop signs being universally red, and that being basis for red labels/buttons. It only takes one example to disprove universality, I showed multiple. To point of labeling and actions though: 1) I'm proponent of button labels being verbs ("Delete" vs "Yes") 2) Undo-able where possible
  - thaumasiotes 13y ago
    Actually, the post you responded to specifically argued that the universality (= every country, not necessarily every sign) of red stop signs makes red a good color for warning dialogs. That argument doesn't require that all stop signs be red everywhere, it requires that red stop signs be typical everywhere, which they are. The only non-red stop signs described by wikipedia are several decades old. As to the topic, I agree that the "yes" doesn't belong on the buttons, and have no particular opinion on undo vs no-undo.
- waterlesscloud 13y ago
  This sign in a national park in South Africa looks very similar. I thought it might be the same place, but the landscape is completely different. http://www.cape-hike.co.za/green-stop-sign/ http://www.cape-hike.co.za/green-stop-sign/ The imgur link has the other sign, which looks very much in the style of the US National Park Service.
- dagw 13y ago
  A guess would be that there are strict rules and regulations about placement of official road signs even on private property. These signs are probably unofficial signs placed by property owners to regulate traffic on their property and thus legally have to look different from the signs placed by the local department of transport (or whoever is responsible)
nl 13y ago
Ha. Nevertheless even going back as far as 1931, the Geneva convention "CONVENTION CONCERNING THE UNIFICATION OF ROAD SIGNALS" says: Signs Prohibiting Passage: For these signs, the colour red must clearly predominate and must be used so as to bring into relief the general contour of the sign. The other colours to be used are optional except in the following cases[1] I still say stop signs are universally expected to be red. Some singular counter-examples don't disprove that - they just show there are some weird things that happen. I'd also note that linked example was posted from Reddit (in a joke sub-reddit) and it is entirely possible it was photoshopped. Other examples of green stop signs found by Google seems to be almost all photoshopped or on private property. [1] http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/kinmokusei/convention/before/1931signals.html http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/kinmokusei/convention/before/...
- dalke 13y ago
  The OP suggested that the universality of red in this fashion was evolutionary in basis. Stop signs as an example of universality. But stop signs are closely coupled to a specific, near-universal machine culture. The presence of early non-red stop signs suggests that "red = stop" is a learned association. Indeed, as the Wikipedia article states, the early standardizations used a yellow background instead of red. I conjecture that it was originally yellow for visibility reason, then turned red for better contrast with yellow used for caution signs. A full analysis would need to dig into the reasoning for this decision. A more complete analysis would need to look into how color was used in the 1800s, before driving culture appeared. For example, was red the predominate color of danger in steam engines? (Note also that in Swedish and Finnish cultures, Falu red/punamulta is associated with an idyllic country-side life. These houses are not considered "dangerous" despite being red.) The first and third literature references I gave are not in opposition to the idea that red has a (near) universal meaning. They instead cast doubt on the conjecture that the associations are evolutionary. The first suggests that even the observed psychological effects might be culturally learned, and the third suggests that we have a rather wide-spread global culture, making it hard to determine what is cultural and what is evolutionary. Stop signs are also nearly universally octagon in shape. I very much doubt there's any sort of evolutionary reason for this choice. My challenge was for the OP to defend the statement that the choice of red = blood = danger = stop is based on evolutionary reasons, with scientific research to back it up. The paper I quoted show that there's very little research which can distinguish between a shared culture (and yes, China and the US have a shared culture) and evolutionary universalism. One need only read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_color_naming_debate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_c... to see that even the basic color terms across cultures, and the evolution of color terms, is still being debated. It would be hard to ask someone "is red a dangerous color" if that someone doesn't distinguish between red and yellow.

by bch 13y ago

> the universality of red as the color of stop sign http://i.imgur.com/6UTTUjW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6UTTUjW.jpg http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign

thaumasiotes 13y ago

The wikipedia link is strong support for the idea that stop signs are universally red. Every pictured sign, from Argentina to Zimbabwe, is at the very least framed in red, and most are considerably redder than that. The text notes "The white legend/red field appearance is usually the same [from country to country]". The imgur link shows an unexplained green sign. Any thoughts as to why it's green?

bch 13y ago
Not clear why that instance is green. I think I've seen arrive photos of green stop signs too. The point of my post wasn't too be flippant though: the GP was talking about stop signs being universally red, and that being basis for red labels/buttons. It only takes one example to disprove universality, I showed multiple. To point of labeling and actions though: 1) I'm proponent of button labels being verbs ("Delete" vs "Yes") 2) Undo-able where possible
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  Actually, the post you responded to specifically argued that the universality (= every country, not necessarily every sign) of red stop signs makes red a good color for warning dialogs. That argument doesn't require that all stop signs be red everywhere, it requires that red stop signs be typical everywhere, which they are. The only non-red stop signs described by wikipedia are several decades old. As to the topic, I agree that the "yes" doesn't belong on the buttons, and have no particular opinion on undo vs no-undo.
waterlesscloud 13y ago
This sign in a national park in South Africa looks very similar. I thought it might be the same place, but the landscape is completely different. http://www.cape-hike.co.za/green-stop-sign/ http://www.cape-hike.co.za/green-stop-sign/ The imgur link has the other sign, which looks very much in the style of the US National Park Service.
dagw 13y ago
A guess would be that there are strict rules and regulations about placement of official road signs even on private property. These signs are probably unofficial signs placed by property owners to regulate traffic on their property and thus legally have to look different from the signs placed by the local department of transport (or whoever is responsible)

nl 13y ago

Ha. Nevertheless even going back as far as 1931, the Geneva convention "CONVENTION CONCERNING THE UNIFICATION OF ROAD SIGNALS" says: Signs Prohibiting Passage: For these signs, the colour red must clearly predominate and must be used so as to bring into relief the general contour of the sign. The other colours to be used are optional except in the following cases[1] I still say stop signs are universally expected to be red. Some singular counter-examples don't disprove that - they just show there are some weird things that happen. I'd also note that linked example was posted from Reddit (in a joke sub-reddit) and it is entirely possible it was photoshopped. Other examples of green stop signs found by Google seems to be almost all photoshopped or on private property. [1] http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/kinmokusei/convention/before/1931signals.html http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/kinmokusei/convention/before/...

dalke 13y ago
The OP suggested that the universality of red in this fashion was evolutionary in basis. Stop signs as an example of universality. But stop signs are closely coupled to a specific, near-universal machine culture. The presence of early non-red stop signs suggests that "red = stop" is a learned association. Indeed, as the Wikipedia article states, the early standardizations used a yellow background instead of red. I conjecture that it was originally yellow for visibility reason, then turned red for better contrast with yellow used for caution signs. A full analysis would need to dig into the reasoning for this decision. A more complete analysis would need to look into how color was used in the 1800s, before driving culture appeared. For example, was red the predominate color of danger in steam engines? (Note also that in Swedish and Finnish cultures, Falu red/punamulta is associated with an idyllic country-side life. These houses are not considered "dangerous" despite being red.) The first and third literature references I gave are not in opposition to the idea that red has a (near) universal meaning. They instead cast doubt on the conjecture that the associations are evolutionary. The first suggests that even the observed psychological effects might be culturally learned, and the third suggests that we have a rather wide-spread global culture, making it hard to determine what is cultural and what is evolutionary. Stop signs are also nearly universally octagon in shape. I very much doubt there's any sort of evolutionary reason for this choice. My challenge was for the OP to defend the statement that the choice of red = blood = danger = stop is based on evolutionary reasons, with scientific research to back it up. The paper I quoted show that there's very little research which can distinguish between a shared culture (and yes, China and the US have a shared culture) and evolutionary universalism. One need only read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_color_naming_debate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_c... to see that even the basic color terms across cultures, and the evolution of color terms, is still being debated. It would be hard to ask someone "is red a dangerous color" if that someone doesn't distinguish between red and yellow.