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Popular startup stole my code – now what?
Hi, I want to ask HN for advice - a somewhat popular startup recently took a page straight out of Dilbert.
Is this common?
Should I do something about that?
I went on an interview at flipps.com and wrote some "sample" code to fix their horrible, memory-hungry iOS app. I only improved a single view of the app(because I suspected something like this might happen).
The company didn't wish to move forward and hire me to fix the rest of the app. I didn't think much of it and thought that was the end of that.
But to my surprise they immediately shipped my sample code to production!
Now, I am aware of the legal status of code written as a "sample" and they probably don't owe me money for it.
I'm not looking for vengeance, and I'm not really all that angry. There's more code where that came from and I won't starve without their business.
But this an unethical way to go about software development.
And it is especially dishonest toward their investors(who think they've made an investment in a technologically-savvy company, not just software thieves).
If you wish to drop them a line, the site is flipps.com, and their main investor is http://launchhub.com.
- palakchokshi 13y agoIf you didn't sign an NDA when you interviewed post your code fix here or on your blog. That should bring some visibility to your "cause". Otherwise it is your word against theirs.
- ravensley14 13y agoWhat he said^
- x1024 13y agoHere are the parts not covered by an NDA: * Our initial email communication. * The description of my task. * The schedule for our meeting (in-office, where the code was written) * The bill that my consulting company sent them, including a detailed description of the issue and the applied fix. * Their refusal to continue working with my company. * Their shipping of a new version two days after the interview. I know it's all circumstantial. That's why the title doesn't say "I'm starting legal action against a popular startup". Again, I'm not out for blood. But I do want to spread the word and raise awareness.
- bozho 13y agoWhat bothers me is that there are no technical people on their "team" page. Only an "R&D manager".
- x1024 13y agoGee, I wonder why.
- supercoder 13y agoIt's cool guys, they mention UX.
- god_bless_texas 13y agoI really must know what a CAO is.
- pawn 13y agoI counted four CS majors on their page...
- seivan 13y agoNot a single Engineer on their team http://www.flipps.com/flipps-team/ http://www.flipps.com/flipps-team/ - such overhead.
- god_bless_texas 13y agowhat is a CAO anyway?
- cesarpereira 13y agoChief Administrative Officer http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_administrative_officer http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_administrative_officer That position existed at my company several years ago before being acquired. Rumor was it used to be a more popular position back in the day. The company was over 100 years old.
- poopicus 13y agoHow do you know they shipped your code?
- x1024 13y agoBecause it was shipped about 48 hours after I wrote it, and I see details in it that are specific to my implementation. In fact, if you use their iOS app(especially on the more memory-consuming devices like an iPad Retina)you'll notice that the app reproducibly crashes on all screens. Except one.
- sdesol 13y ago"reproducibly crashes on all screens. Except one" This reminds me of the story about a large telecom company in North America and one in China. They were able to show that their code was stolen because they had the same bug.
- raarts 13y agoExactly. My product was stolen by a competitor. In court I could show their product had the same bug as mine. That was the start of their downfall. They bankrupted.
- acoomans 13y agoYou could reverse engineer their app and see if it matches your implementation. Super easy if it's html app. Not too hard if objective-c since it is very verbose, even with symbols stripped.
- TempleOSV2 13y agoOSDev brags about minimum resources. That's what losers do who can't find a use for modern technology. I use lots of memory to make my code simpler. I like it like it is. God says... ouch manufacturing failure_to_communicate to_infinity_and_beyond oh_come_on bye it's_hopeless you_don't_say surprise_surprise computers
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- swalsh 13y agoYou have their email, how long was the interview? Just send them an invoice for your typical hourly rate...
- x1024 13y agoI did, but they just said they are not interested and paid nothing. The whole thing took most of a work day, all of it spent writing code.
- jason_slack 13y agoCan I ask why you agreed to spend "most of a work day" on a "sample"? I have heard others saying they spent a "few" hours on a technical test but I think most of a work day triggers alarms for me.
- jmathai 13y agoIn all honesty it's probably not worth pursuing. It's unethical and if they operate other parts of their business this way one can only hope they eventually implode. I had a similar experience. I founded a company 3 years ago where we open source the majority of what we do. We entered into a discussion with a well funded (>$40M) "startup" about how they could use our service as a whitelabeled SaaS offering to their customers. After a few promising exchanges including a Skype call with their Founder and VP of Engineering they stopped returning all of my attempts to see what the next steps should be. Turns out the reason was because they forked a private repository of the work we did - web, iOS and Android. We found out they're using our code because they didn't even bother taking out our Crashalytics code and we started to get a bunch of pings. To this day their iOS app still uses our "yellow" color for toggle buttons. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcpbbnbltm2bmq6/Photo%20Mar%2026%2C%203%2013%2004%20PM.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcpbbnbltm2bmq6/Photo%20Mar%2026%2... They didn't violate any terms of our license (MIT) but I lost some faith in humanity because of what they did :). -- My company is Trovebox - code @ https://github.com/photo https://github.com/photo
- ballard 13y agoYup. Consider it a cheap lesson in trust and that their reputations are blown. It's a small valley and word will get around.
- avenger123 13y agoSorry to hear. Seems like they were fishing to see what else they could get from you that wasn't already open-sourced. When they found that the open source code was enough, they dumped you. As this changed your mind about open sourcing the code or how you open source code now?
- jmathai 13y ago> As this changed your mind about open sourcing the code or how you open source code now? That question deserves an entire blog post. Ultimately, no. But along the way it's made me much more cautious. Their use of our code didn't impact our business at all. It's mainly principle - they used our code and didn't contribute back any work they did.
- computer 13y agoWait until they are close to exiting and then threaten to sue for 5%, settle for 2%. It's the absolute worst timing for a startup to get hit with something like this. Of course, only do it if you're actually in the right, so check with a lawyer first.
- hga 13y agoIndeed. At any investment event, they're exquisitely vulnerable to the threat of a lawsuit.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- rohanpai 13y agoHow will you know if someone is about to close or exit? I feel like startups go out of their way to keep that private.
- computer 13y agoThat's a problem. It's easiest if the exit is an IPO, since that's announced in advance. I've seen this strategy used on a fairly large company about to be acquired by a public company, when there were already rumors going around before the acquisition. It caused the management there an enormous amount of stress, and they settled for a significant amount of money, even when they believed a court would rule in their favor. You're an awful person if you use this, so better make sure the company you use it on is even worse.
- Ryel 13y agoWow that looks like the most boring, un-inspiring group of people I've ever seen. You are a lucky man (or woman) to have walked away without a job.
- centdev 13y agoHow are you sure they shipped an update with your code
- mattwritescode 13y agoTo be honest I would just keep clam and carry on. I really doubt you can do anything about it. Why? Proof. You say they took your code but whats to say they already had something similar in development. Without actually seeing the code changes you are just making assumptions (although it does sound suspicious). Personally I would say take the moral high ground. Just forget it and move on. A lawyer will take you money and you will probably be worse off than before.
- BrindsleyQuives 13y ago>>To be honest I would just keep clam and carry on... Yes. In times of stress, I too often seek solace in mollusc husbandry.
- arikrak 13y agoA popular startup once stole some content I created, but I decided it wasn't an amount that was worth suing over right then.
- tedchs 13y agoI don't understand why a company would expose their source code to a job applicant who was not yet hired?