5 ms·

Honest question - let's say at some point in the future North Korea sees their current regime fall and a more democratic or at least benevolent dictatorship tak

Honest question - let's say at some point in the future North Korea sees their current regime fall and a more democratic or at least benevolent dictatorship takes over. What sort of mass psychological issues are we looking at here? I can only imagine how the minds of the current citizenship work, would it be nearly impossible for those raised only knowing what they know to recover from the previous trauma?

NotOscarWilde 13y ago
I believe people everywhere in the world are used to supressing the difference between the stated ideals of their land (equality, liberty, free elections) and the reality (prejudices, xenophobia, racism, assassinations ordered by the government, voter sway via public ads). If our minds can supress the differences between ideals and reality in USA, Russia, India, Pakistan, Japan or any other country of residence, I believe North Koreans can do the same -- focus on their daily life and ignore the atrocities. All of that is just my opinion, obviously. My family adapted fine after the fall of the Soviet Union, but that's just anecdotal.
- Touche 13y ago
  Bribery is still a major problem in Russia. It takes a long time for a population to adjust to things they are used to being part of every day life.
- sharkweek 13y ago
  Interesting - I am curious if that's common in North Korea. I can imagine there are a lot of under the radar rumblings about how things are supposed to be as opposed to how they are. Thus I could assuming that most obedience is fear based as opposed to actual loyalty.
S4M 13y ago
I think you should see how the difference of mentality clashed between East and West Germans after the reunification, and amplify that a bit. I suspect it would take one or two generations to close the gap between the two Koreas after the hypothetical reunification.
- andyjohnson0 13y ago
  East Germans were generally quite knowledgeable about life in the West and were aware of the deficiencies of their own society. I don't think North Koreans are quite so aware of conditions outside their country. Last year there was a big crackdown on "knowledge smugglers" [1] bringing "subversive" western and Chinese material into North Korea. [1] http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/north-korea-cracks-down-on-knowledge-smugglers-20130101-2c3p7.html http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/north-ko...
andyjohnson0 13y ago
The only state that I can think of that is remotely comparable to North Korea is pre-1992 Albania [1] - isolated and repressive, with a kind of leader-worship cult going on. After that all fell apart in the mid-nineties things didn't work out too well economically and socially, though I'm not sure that was due to mass psychological problems in the population. Survivors of cults such as Scientology that encourage isolation and obedience to a leader figure might also provide some pointers. The problem is that it is hard to be sure about the state of mind of the general population. They could be mostly completely brainwashed and controlled; or going along with the charade out of necessity while behind the scenes there is widespread shared disgust at the leadership; or they could be living terrified, isolated lives unable to speak about their private thoughts to anyone, even their families, out of fear of police informers. People do attempt to escape the country, though, so there is some dissent. Overall I'd say NK is unique, and when it disintegrates the social effects probably won't be like anything we've seen before. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Communist_Albania_.281944.E2.80.931992.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Communist_Albania_.2819...
- sentenza 13y ago
  I'd say you're right that it is quite unlike all we have seen before, however, there are more precedents (although you picked an excellent one with Albania). One example comes to mind is post-defeat Germany in 1945. This is particularly interesting because here we have the total, absolute and undebatable annihilation of an entire worldview. North Korea will very likely also experience this "everything you ever believed is wrong" moment, so some parallels might apply. The Germans mostly kept their heads down and tried to ingore the past for a few decades. This might not be possible for the North Koreans, however, as they are not surrounded by rubble but by prosperity. Another example would be the core-to-periphery of the Soviet Union when that collapsed. Around here there are many former inhabitants of the SU and they tell stories of chaos and desorientation with many people using their newly-recieved freedom to cheat others or be cheated. I think the Albanians experienced something similar with a snowball-scam of national proportions. It would be unfortunate if the economic reality of "the little man" in democratic post-North Korea were similar to this, since these things usually trigger a backlash.

NotOscarWilde 13y ago

I believe people everywhere in the world are used to supressing the difference between the stated ideals of their land (equality, liberty, free elections) and the reality (prejudices, xenophobia, racism, assassinations ordered by the government, voter sway via public ads). If our minds can supress the differences between ideals and reality in USA, Russia, India, Pakistan, Japan or any other country of residence, I believe North Koreans can do the same -- focus on their daily life and ignore the atrocities. All of that is just my opinion, obviously. My family adapted fine after the fall of the Soviet Union, but that's just anecdotal.

Touche 13y ago
Bribery is still a major problem in Russia. It takes a long time for a population to adjust to things they are used to being part of every day life.
sharkweek 13y ago
Interesting - I am curious if that's common in North Korea. I can imagine there are a lot of under the radar rumblings about how things are supposed to be as opposed to how they are. Thus I could assuming that most obedience is fear based as opposed to actual loyalty.

S4M 13y ago

I think you should see how the difference of mentality clashed between East and West Germans after the reunification, and amplify that a bit. I suspect it would take one or two generations to close the gap between the two Koreas after the hypothetical reunification.

andyjohnson0 13y ago
East Germans were generally quite knowledgeable about life in the West and were aware of the deficiencies of their own society. I don't think North Koreans are quite so aware of conditions outside their country. Last year there was a big crackdown on "knowledge smugglers" [1] bringing "subversive" western and Chinese material into North Korea. [1] http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/north-korea-cracks-down-on-knowledge-smugglers-20130101-2c3p7.html http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/north-ko...

andyjohnson0 13y ago

The only state that I can think of that is remotely comparable to North Korea is pre-1992 Albania [1] - isolated and repressive, with a kind of leader-worship cult going on. After that all fell apart in the mid-nineties things didn't work out too well economically and socially, though I'm not sure that was due to mass psychological problems in the population. Survivors of cults such as Scientology that encourage isolation and obedience to a leader figure might also provide some pointers. The problem is that it is hard to be sure about the state of mind of the general population. They could be mostly completely brainwashed and controlled; or going along with the charade out of necessity while behind the scenes there is widespread shared disgust at the leadership; or they could be living terrified, isolated lives unable to speak about their private thoughts to anyone, even their families, out of fear of police informers. People do attempt to escape the country, though, so there is some dissent. Overall I'd say NK is unique, and when it disintegrates the social effects probably won't be like anything we've seen before. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Communist_Albania_.281944.E2.80.931992.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Communist_Albania_.2819...

sentenza 13y ago
I'd say you're right that it is quite unlike all we have seen before, however, there are more precedents (although you picked an excellent one with Albania). One example comes to mind is post-defeat Germany in 1945. This is particularly interesting because here we have the total, absolute and undebatable annihilation of an entire worldview. North Korea will very likely also experience this "everything you ever believed is wrong" moment, so some parallels might apply. The Germans mostly kept their heads down and tried to ingore the past for a few decades. This might not be possible for the North Koreans, however, as they are not surrounded by rubble but by prosperity. Another example would be the core-to-periphery of the Soviet Union when that collapsed. Around here there are many former inhabitants of the SU and they tell stories of chaos and desorientation with many people using their newly-recieved freedom to cheat others or be cheated. I think the Albanians experienced something similar with a snowball-scam of national proportions. It would be unfortunate if the economic reality of "the little man" in democratic post-North Korea were similar to this, since these things usually trigger a backlash.