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Ask any random person what they think of when you say "hacker." PROTIP: it's not your typical employee of some random consumer web startup, working 12 hour days

Ask any random person what they think of when you say "hacker." PROTIP: it's not your typical employee of some random consumer web startup, working 12 hour days and pounding redbull. It's someone who bypasses technical security controls through mastery of the underlying technology.

kaeruct 13y ago
but those aren't mutually exclusive
StudyAnimal 13y ago
Does anyone think the former should be considered a good description of a hacker? To me it is someone using their intelligence, to do something clever (or at least in a clever way) to disrupt or destroy something, make someone uncomfortable or piss someone off, or challenge something, for some result that satisfies them or someone else in some way. And the essence really lies in that first bit. A random programmer isn't a hacker unless that first bit is there, the unorthodox, challenging or subversive bit.
- Jtsummers 13y ago
  So in your mind this site is about news concerning disrupting, destroying and irritating things and people? "Hacker" is entirely combative and offensive in your view. That seems weird to me.
  - StudyAnimal 13y ago
    Yes, I think it should be. I think most things on the site qualify, but not all. However your second statement is a mischaracterization. It is not "entirely" combative or offensive. I just think that is the essential ingredient before the word hacker is appropriate. If you are modifying a device meant for one purpose to use it in another purpose that is hacking because you are subversively defying the intentions of the devices creators. If you are merely using an Arduino or a 3d printer to make something, that is not hacking. If you are founding a startup to disrupt an existing business model, and put a dinosaur out of business you are hacking. If you are just churning out another iPhone game, that is probably not hacking.
    - Jtsummers 13y ago
      Using an (as an example) LCD projector to make a 3D printer is hacking. But it's not necessarily subversive. It's not what it was designed for, and not what it was intended for, but it's not necessarily in opposition to the will of the original creators/designers. And that opposition is the key ingredient to subversiveness. > To me it is someone using their intelligence, to do something clever (or at least in a clever way) to disrupt or destroy something, make someone uncomfortable or piss someone off, or challenge something, for some result that satisfies them or someone else in some way. All of those (destroy, disrupt, make uncomfortable, piss off, now subvert) except for "challenge" are combative things, especially if, as you keep doing, you relate it as being opposed to other people or entities. Hackers don't have to have the intention of undermining anything to be hackers. Making an HTTP server entirely in forth written entirely in assembly is a hacker thing to do, but it's not undermining anyone's authority, the closest it gets to your categorization (but not your apparent meaning) is as a challenge. EDIT: forgot a word

kaeruct 13y ago

but those aren't mutually exclusive

StudyAnimal 13y ago

Does anyone think the former should be considered a good description of a hacker? To me it is someone using their intelligence, to do something clever (or at least in a clever way) to disrupt or destroy something, make someone uncomfortable or piss someone off, or challenge something, for some result that satisfies them or someone else in some way. And the essence really lies in that first bit. A random programmer isn't a hacker unless that first bit is there, the unorthodox, challenging or subversive bit.

Jtsummers 13y ago
So in your mind this site is about news concerning disrupting, destroying and irritating things and people? "Hacker" is entirely combative and offensive in your view. That seems weird to me.
- StudyAnimal 13y ago
  Yes, I think it should be. I think most things on the site qualify, but not all. However your second statement is a mischaracterization. It is not "entirely" combative or offensive. I just think that is the essential ingredient before the word hacker is appropriate. If you are modifying a device meant for one purpose to use it in another purpose that is hacking because you are subversively defying the intentions of the devices creators. If you are merely using an Arduino or a 3d printer to make something, that is not hacking. If you are founding a startup to disrupt an existing business model, and put a dinosaur out of business you are hacking. If you are just churning out another iPhone game, that is probably not hacking.
  - Jtsummers 13y ago
    Using an (as an example) LCD projector to make a 3D printer is hacking. But it's not necessarily subversive. It's not what it was designed for, and not what it was intended for, but it's not necessarily in opposition to the will of the original creators/designers. And that opposition is the key ingredient to subversiveness. > To me it is someone using their intelligence, to do something clever (or at least in a clever way) to disrupt or destroy something, make someone uncomfortable or piss someone off, or challenge something, for some result that satisfies them or someone else in some way. All of those (destroy, disrupt, make uncomfortable, piss off, now subvert) except for "challenge" are combative things, especially if, as you keep doing, you relate it as being opposed to other people or entities. Hackers don't have to have the intention of undermining anything to be hackers. Making an HTTP server entirely in forth written entirely in assembly is a hacker thing to do, but it's not undermining anyone's authority, the closest it gets to your categorization (but not your apparent meaning) is as a challenge. EDIT: forgot a word